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[Music]

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you're in the pair test the gold

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standard of paranormal radio here's gene

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Steinberg this is a special day for the

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para cast the para cast has been on the

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air for five years they said it couldn't

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be done and after hearing the show they

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might even say that it shouldn't be done

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but we're here we're still alive and

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we're still kicking

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the UFO field and the paranormal field

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who are trying to make a mess of

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everything

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so I've assembled present and former

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co-hosts so we could have a roundtable

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discussion and answer your questions

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now I posted a special forum thread of

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the power cast forums at forum podcast

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calmed called questions for fifth

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anniversary show figured we get a few

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questions we have dozens of questions we

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have so many questions here ladies and

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gentlemen we could do a show just with

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the questions and then do three or four

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sequel shows but first let me introduce

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our guests of course our co-host is

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Chris O'Brien our guest co-host Greg

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Bishop you have been here in a while

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bishop what are you up to what what have

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I been doing I'm looking for a job

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that's my main job right now other than

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that I'm doing trying to fix my radio

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site for radio misterioso so that should

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be a treat coming up in the next few

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weeks we can't wait we also gave Greg

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some web space in case he needs it Paul

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Kimball have you become the box-office

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sensation in terms of filmmaking yet no

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but the nice thing about what I get to

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do is I don't really care about what the

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box office is I'm pretty sure my

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investors do and will in the future but

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I just like making good films so that's

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what I'm still working away at can you

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tell us what you have coming out that we

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might look forward to well eternal kiss

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is finally going to get released this

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year it's it's actually available for

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free for two weeks although by the time

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the show airs it won't be available

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anymore so I've also taken the best

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evidence the

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original version that aired on space and

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TVNZ in 2007 I have to put that up for

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free you can watch it on the para cast

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forums actually I've posted it there and

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we're working on an enhanced DVD set

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with a lot of extras new narration that

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should be available from the looks of it

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mid to late spring that one I won't be

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putting up for free because my investors

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don't like it when I do that with new

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stuff but yes I buy groceries yeah well

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yeah you know you have to pay people

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back who were kind enough to put money

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into your film projects in the first

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place you know that'll be great there'll

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be a lot of good news stuff and I have a

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couple of feature films in development

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right now that look good to go into

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production this summer so that's really

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what I'm focusing on at the moment so

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then we'll be checking box office mojo

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to see what's happening or Netflix or

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broadcaster near you or film festivals

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which for independent films are usually

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the first place where you're able to see

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something Chris O'Brien while this show

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is being heard on the 27th of February

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you and I will be roaming the halls of

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this convention in the Phoenix area

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what's that about oh boy

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well the UFO Congress has been

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resurrected after the bill and Terry

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Brown had it since the early 90s and a

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gentleman named John ray oh and his

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organization open minds have sort of

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taken it over to a certain degree and

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they've revamped it they've shortened it

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they've attempted to I guess upscale the

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speakers a little bit from years past

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and they're doing really well you know

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they've pretty much sold it out and by

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the time this airs we will we will have

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had a pretty interesting time down there

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I'm gonna be the face of the thing I'm

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gonna have a film crew and we'll have

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been walking around all week

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with a microphone so it should be fun

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and some of that stuff field here in the

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para cast because I'll be there at the

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same time with my studio equipment and

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your studio equipment and of course my

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MacBook Pro because we're all Apple all

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the time here except for Paul Kimball

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but we won't hold that against them

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because I kind of like the guy in any

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case we will have something featured in

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our shows in March from that convention

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okay let's go to the questions let's go

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to the

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peanut gallery here and we have the

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first question is actually five

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questions and game these are the kinds

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of questions where we could do a host

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show all right

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it comes from EXO doc it says happy

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fifth guys thank you so much

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question one could you list some of the

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more pertinent reasons why the field of

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ufology has been bogged down for several

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years this is a Paul Kimball question

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Paul let's hear your reaction

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the primary answer the easiest answer

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for me would be to say it's bogged down

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because it focuses on theories on people

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arguing about what they believe the UFO

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phenomena might represent or not whether

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it's aliens from outer space or military

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intelligence projects or extra

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dimensionals or crypto terrestrials or

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whatever it is so instead of accepting

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it for what it is a genuine mystery that

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should be of interest to anybody that is

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interested in mysteries that might even

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have national security implications if

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you take it far enough whatever there's

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a read there are reasons why you would

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want to be interested in this instead

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it's it's within the UFO research

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community at least the public UFO

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research community itself

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it's degenerated into interpersonal

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conflicts turf wars and arguments over

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things that nobody on any side can prove

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and research as a result has suffered

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and nothing really new and I mean

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genuinely new and mysterious in my

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opinion has come out in years and

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perhaps even decades and I don't think

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that's what people are focusing on so

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sometimes people like Greg and Nick

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Redfern and I Mac Tony's before he

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passed away was like this too can sound

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disenchanted cranky confrontational

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whatever word you want to use that's

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because we are because we look around

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and we see that a subject we're

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interested in that we find mysterious

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and compelling and thought-provoking is

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being turned into a laughingstock by

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people that are more interested in

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making themselves a name or in proponent

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promoting their theories or whatever it

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is that drives them then actually taking

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a look at

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the mystery with a sense and here's

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what's really missing here isn't a

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nutshell guys to my point of view what's

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missing is the following two words gee

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whiz and even as I say it I sound you

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know like depressed so I'll try and do

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it in a happy way gee whiz I mean like

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you know that late 1940s early 1950s

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thing where you just looked and went wow

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something interesting something amazing

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might be going on we might be

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interacting in some way shape or form

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with some other intelligence how is that

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not fun and exciting and somehow UFO

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research has managed to the UFO

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community ufology whatever you want to

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call it has sucked all of that energy

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out and it's become petty bitter

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vindictive and frankly not worth the

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time of anyone whose IQ has three

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numbers in it as opposed to two and so

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that's the problem as I see it Greg

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Bishop very well stated bulb Greg Bishop

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what's your reaction well everything

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that Paul said obviously and I see it as

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as too many people with with not too

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many bright ideas arguing the loudest

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and making the biggest noise and I'm

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talking about on on on the anti if you

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want to call that UFO side and Pro UFO

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side whatever that is the loudest people

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tend to be the least creative and

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dumbest people it seems that way in any

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field of endeavor but in something is

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unaccepted as UFOs study it just makes

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it even worse and pushes it further off

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the map of people of the interest of

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people who are interested in the in the

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mystery and are interested in I don't

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know about a solution because I don't

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know if that's possible right now but I

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don't think it's solution will elude us

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and the problem with not having people

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outside of UFO can get interested in

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that is because that's where I think

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some sort of breakthrough in thinking or

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direction will come from not from

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somebody who's been studying UFOs for

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eight zillion years or debris up off of

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remote places in New Mexico or wherever

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and saying this is follows from both the

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planets gonna come from a

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physicist or a sociologist or some kind

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of thinker who's completely invested in

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some other sort of pursuit that looks at

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the UFO subject with new eyes of fresh

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eyes and with their background and with

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cutting-edge thought research and

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theories that haven't been applied

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before that can be a UFO mystery and

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that's that's what's holding it back is

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egos loud people keeping smart

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interested people who otherwise could

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make a really big difference I think

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away from the subject this is right away

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several questions and we'll get to more

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of this okay we have our co-host Chris

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O'Brien guest co-hosts Greg Bishop

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former co-host think about that Paul

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Kimble on our fifth anniversary episode

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[Music]

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don't complain about your cable bill

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going up and up and up do something

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about it

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grab a pencil and jot down this special

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number 1 877 beat 0 for my TV the more

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cable TV rates go up the better digital

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satellite TV looks so disabled the cable

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and get more of your favorite channels

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in 100% digital quality for less money

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call one eight seven seven eight zero

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for my TV right now to sign up for

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packages starting as low as $19.99 and

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up to four rooms and there's no

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equipment to buy that includes your free

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HDTV upgrade your free DVR upgrade and

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your free professional installation and

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the best part the pristine digital

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picture and sound call one eight seven

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seven eight zero for my TV so what are

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you waiting for

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pull out your major credit or debit card

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call twenty seven seven eight zero for

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my TV one eight seven seven eight zero

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for my TV disable the cable cut costs

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and get more call one eight seven seven

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eight zero for my TV one eight seven

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seven beat zero for my TV making the

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right decisions is a challenge to

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investors are we going to see economic

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growth slide into a recession or at

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worst depression hi Ted Anderson

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fremitus resources we all know when a

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company actually responsibly divesting

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ourselves and a move towards safety is

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prudent when the market becomes volatile

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US Treasuries are a safe haven but what

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do you do when the US government over

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extends itself and spends beyond its

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means many investors are turning toward

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gold is a common-sense alternative to

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traditional paper investments Midas

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we want to hear from you if you have a

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comment or question about the pair cast

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send it to news at the para cast com

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00:14:26,350 --> 00:14:24,710
that's news at the para cast calm and

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00:14:29,020 --> 00:14:26,360
don't forget to visit our famous pair of

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cast community forums at forum dot the

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podcast.com get in on all the action at

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00:14:41,830 --> 00:14:38,330
forum dot the para cast comm we're

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00:14:44,290 --> 00:14:41,840
talking with our former co-host Paul

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00:14:47,110 --> 00:14:44,300
Kimble Greg Bishop our guest co-host

323
00:14:50,830 --> 00:14:47,120
co-host Chris O'Brien this is the fifth

324
00:14:52,980 --> 00:14:50,840
anniversary episode of the para cast in

325
00:14:56,230 --> 00:14:52,990
other words it's a special occasion a

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00:14:58,210 --> 00:14:56,240
special event celebrating something that

327
00:15:01,360 --> 00:14:58,220
I didn't even expect to happen when the

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00:15:03,820 --> 00:15:01,370
power cast started in February of 2006

329
00:15:05,620 --> 00:15:03,830
we have basically been answering two or

330
00:15:08,500 --> 00:15:05,630
three questions from exo docket once

331
00:15:10,810 --> 00:15:08,510
which is of course you know what's wrong

332
00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:10,820
with UFO field how can we fix things up

333
00:15:17,710 --> 00:15:13,330
Chris what's your reaction well again I

334
00:15:19,450 --> 00:15:17,720
absolutely agree with Paul and Greg in

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00:15:21,910 --> 00:15:19,460
terms of describing the general

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00:15:25,030 --> 00:15:21,920
atmosphere that's been very detrimental

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00:15:26,350 --> 00:15:25,040
to to the field it's it's always they've

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00:15:28,260 --> 00:15:26,360
been flowed I think from the very

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00:15:32,230 --> 00:15:28,270
beginning but it seems to be getting

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00:15:35,620 --> 00:15:32,240
worse as the years go by another thing

341
00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:35,630
that I have a particular interest in is

342
00:15:40,750 --> 00:15:39,290
actual hard data gathering and as Paul

343
00:15:44,470 --> 00:15:40,760
pointed out there seems to be a lot of

344
00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:44,480
theorizing going on and a lot of you

345
00:15:47,770 --> 00:15:46,010
know some some better than others in

346
00:15:50,230 --> 00:15:47,780
terms of the quality of the ideas but

347
00:15:53,410 --> 00:15:50,240
there's not very much hard data being

348
00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:53,420
gathered and one of the things that I am

349
00:15:58,930 --> 00:15:56,810
trying to do is get funding to put

350
00:16:00,730 --> 00:15:58,940
together a hard data monitoring set up

351
00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:00,740
you know in a place that's known for its

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00:16:05,020 --> 00:16:02,930
activity and I think this kind of

353
00:16:08,170 --> 00:16:05,030
approach potentially could be the

354
00:16:10,660 --> 00:16:08,180
fastest way to garner the respect to the

355
00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:10,670
scientific community and academia and

356
00:16:16,090 --> 00:16:13,490
and also potentially provide some sort

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00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:16,100
of scientific understanding and you know

358
00:16:20,980 --> 00:16:17,330
why wouldn't it be great even a

359
00:16:23,380 --> 00:16:20,990
breakthrough in terms of increasing our

360
00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:23,390
level of understanding and I think that

361
00:16:27,170 --> 00:16:24,450
this is an area that

362
00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:27,180
could be the antithesis to all the

363
00:16:33,380 --> 00:16:30,330
backbiting and people you know fighting

364
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:33,390
over whose theory is correct and and the

365
00:16:37,340 --> 00:16:35,370
rest of it that Paul and Greg you just

366
00:16:41,090 --> 00:16:37,350
pointed out so that's kind of my

367
00:16:42,590 --> 00:16:41,100
additional comment too I think what the

368
00:16:44,450 --> 00:16:42,600
main problem is and that's a lot of

369
00:16:46,430 --> 00:16:44,460
infighting bite bite allowed people who

370
00:16:48,650 --> 00:16:46,440
perhaps should do a little bit more

371
00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:48,660
thinking as opposed to the flapping

372
00:16:53,210 --> 00:16:51,210
their opinions they would serve as great

373
00:16:55,550 --> 00:16:53,220
members of Congress I would think in any

374
00:16:58,340 --> 00:16:55,560
case we have by the way so many

375
00:16:59,480 --> 00:16:58,350
questions we can't ask them all it would

376
00:17:02,090 --> 00:16:59,490
take a ten hour show

377
00:17:03,830 --> 00:17:02,100
so what Chris and I are doing is we'll

378
00:17:06,439 --> 00:17:03,840
kind of give you cross-sections and see

379
00:17:07,430 --> 00:17:06,449
if one question relates to another and

380
00:17:10,670 --> 00:17:07,440
see where it goes

381
00:17:14,110 --> 00:17:10,680
now one question someone asked here was

382
00:17:17,180 --> 00:17:14,120
what would you guys say are the top five

383
00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:17,190
researchers of all time who are the best

384
00:17:21,380 --> 00:17:19,290
today and I guess the second question

385
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:21,390
implies someone no longer with us

386
00:17:27,550 --> 00:17:23,970
so let me start with Greg Bishop what's

387
00:17:30,500 --> 00:17:27,560
your reaction top five top five huh

388
00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:30,510
let's see and this is putting a side

389
00:17:34,910 --> 00:17:32,610
thing you know I things that I disagree

390
00:17:36,590 --> 00:17:34,920
with on on different people because I

391
00:17:37,580 --> 00:17:36,600
just because we disagree with somebody

392
00:17:40,420 --> 00:17:37,590
doesn't mean you can't think they're

393
00:17:43,460 --> 00:17:40,430
good researcher valayan key obviously

394
00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:43,470
Jerome Clark is one of them

395
00:17:48,170 --> 00:17:45,930
Kevin Randall I have great disagreements

396
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:48,180
with him I don't have the background and

397
00:17:52,310 --> 00:17:50,610
the and the research muscle that he has

398
00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:52,320
but I think he's a really good and

399
00:17:56,180 --> 00:17:54,570
well-rounded researcher - how many is

400
00:17:56,900 --> 00:17:56,190
that is that five when did you write

401
00:18:00,320 --> 00:17:56,910
that's five

402
00:18:02,990 --> 00:18:00,330
hey you're done nice day Greg now Paul

403
00:18:06,050 --> 00:18:03,000
you have been collecting you know

404
00:18:07,940 --> 00:18:06,060
surveys of one sort or another you know

405
00:18:10,130 --> 00:18:07,950
best troublemaker or biggest

406
00:18:12,350 --> 00:18:10,140
troublemaker so the top five researchers

407
00:18:14,360 --> 00:18:12,360
of all time Paul Campbell who would you

408
00:18:16,010 --> 00:18:14,370
name and your uncle Stan can be among

409
00:18:19,550 --> 00:18:16,020
them if you want sure

410
00:18:23,450 --> 00:18:19,560
to me it's relatively easy J Alan Hynek

411
00:18:26,660 --> 00:18:23,460
oh yeah dr. Jim McDonald who I think is

412
00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:26,670
probably the best researcher of all time

413
00:18:29,780 --> 00:18:28,050
and I think you know it's like asking

414
00:18:32,900 --> 00:18:29,790
filmmakers who's your favorite filmmaker

415
00:18:34,460 --> 00:18:32,910
as opposed to people who watch films

416
00:18:36,620 --> 00:18:34,470
they might say Michael Bay or something

417
00:18:37,670 --> 00:18:36,630
if you ask filmmakers they start since

418
00:18:39,590 --> 00:18:37,680
giving you names

419
00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:39,600
you're not familiar with Jim McDonald is

420
00:18:44,030 --> 00:18:41,250
a name that I think you would find if

421
00:18:45,830 --> 00:18:44,040
you polled UFO researchers the serious

422
00:18:47,690 --> 00:18:45,840
ones I think McDonald's name would be a

423
00:18:49,910 --> 00:18:47,700
door very near the top of everyone's

424
00:18:52,610 --> 00:18:49,920
list but he's largely unknown and

425
00:18:55,700 --> 00:18:52,620
forgotten outside of serious UFO

426
00:18:58,010 --> 00:18:55,710
research that's to Jacques Vallee would

427
00:19:00,260 --> 00:18:58,020
be three Richard Hall and Jerome Clark

428
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:00,270
Jerry Clark and dick Hall I would put

429
00:19:04,310 --> 00:19:02,850
them together there I find it hard to

430
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:04,320
separate the two because I've seen so

431
00:19:08,270 --> 00:19:06,210
many their postings on UFO updates over

432
00:19:10,370 --> 00:19:08,280
the years that I'm gonna put 1a and 1b

433
00:19:12,260 --> 00:19:10,380
there and you know what Stan Friedman

434
00:19:14,330 --> 00:19:12,270
despite whatever disagreements I would

435
00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:14,340
have with him over Roswell or some other

436
00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:16,290
things I think Stan has been a tireless

437
00:19:21,650 --> 00:19:18,570
researcher for the last 35 or 40 years

438
00:19:23,810 --> 00:19:21,660
so that would be my top list and I think

439
00:19:25,550 --> 00:19:23,820
they all bring something interesting and

440
00:19:27,470 --> 00:19:25,560
different or in the case of dick Hall

441
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:27,480
and Heineken McDonald's who are no

442
00:19:30,260 --> 00:19:28,650
longer with us they brought something

443
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:30,270
now I'll bring her brought something

444
00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:31,770
very interesting different a set of

445
00:19:35,150 --> 00:19:33,930
expertise a commitment to the subject

446
00:19:38,420 --> 00:19:35,160
open mind

447
00:19:40,250 --> 00:19:38,430
open-minded but also skeptical when

448
00:19:41,510 --> 00:19:40,260
needed and I think in varying degrees

449
00:19:43,670 --> 00:19:41,520
some more than others

450
00:19:45,830 --> 00:19:43,680
and so yeah I think that's that would be

451
00:19:48,140 --> 00:19:45,840
my list it's pretty good list too now

452
00:19:50,060 --> 00:19:48,150
I'll just drop in my list a little bit

453
00:19:52,130 --> 00:19:50,070
before we have Chris most of the people

454
00:19:54,950 --> 00:19:52,140
you've heard mentioned from Greg and

455
00:19:57,680 --> 00:19:54,960
Paul I'd include I might also include

456
00:19:59,870 --> 00:19:57,690
major Donald Kehoe not because he gave

457
00:20:01,670 --> 00:19:59,880
us anything original but he made it

458
00:20:04,010 --> 00:20:01,680
possible for a lot of people who

459
00:20:08,120 --> 00:20:04,020
otherwise would have not taken UFO

460
00:20:10,580 --> 00:20:08,130
seriously to look at it carefully so for

461
00:20:12,950 --> 00:20:10,590
that alone the way he publicized it I

462
00:20:15,020 --> 00:20:12,960
think he deserves some kind of place in

463
00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:15,030
the Sun again I didn't agree with major

464
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:17,130
Keyhoe I met him several times I think I

465
00:20:20,510 --> 00:20:18,690
did one of his last interviews as a

466
00:20:22,250 --> 00:20:20,520
matter of fact which is lost in the

467
00:20:24,650 --> 00:20:22,260
annals of time I submitted it to a

468
00:20:26,450 --> 00:20:24,660
publisher who never paid me for the

469
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:26,460
article which is why I forgot about it

470
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:29,970
Chris O'Brien your top 5 well I I know

471
00:20:32,870 --> 00:20:31,650
I'm kind of going back a little ways

472
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:32,880
here but well I think one of the

473
00:20:38,150 --> 00:20:36,930
earliest I think most admired person I

474
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:38,160
thought yeah in my mind should be

475
00:20:46,259 --> 00:20:44,210
Charles Ford and Ford valet keel I think

476
00:20:49,049 --> 00:20:46,269
James McDonald again

477
00:20:51,749 --> 00:20:49,059
as Paul mentioned should be up there and

478
00:20:53,159 --> 00:20:51,759
possibly line it well that covers that

479
00:20:55,919 --> 00:20:53,169
pretty quickly let's get to another

480
00:20:59,909 --> 00:20:55,929
question here from dying Sun and by the

481
00:21:02,039 --> 00:20:59,919
way yeah let's ask ourselves this

482
00:21:04,409 --> 00:21:02,049
question sure how many of any of those

483
00:21:06,719 --> 00:21:04,419
people have begun their career in the

484
00:21:09,599 --> 00:21:06,729
last 20 years of all the ones we just

485
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:09,609
named how many of them began their

486
00:21:15,570 --> 00:21:13,570
career even say after 1980 30 years none

487
00:21:17,039 --> 00:21:15,580
now and going back to your first

488
00:21:19,979 --> 00:21:17,049
question about the problems of UFO

489
00:21:21,659 --> 00:21:19,989
researcher ufology wide spa down as good

490
00:21:24,599 --> 00:21:21,669
as all of those people are that we just

491
00:21:26,940 --> 00:21:24,609
named none of them began their careers

492
00:21:29,069 --> 00:21:26,950
within the last 30 years more to the

493
00:21:32,009 --> 00:21:29,079
point Paul is the fact that some are no

494
00:21:34,259 --> 00:21:32,019
longer with us others are in their 60s

495
00:21:37,379 --> 00:21:34,269
and 70s so maybe their best years are

496
00:21:39,629 --> 00:21:37,389
behind them so where is the current

497
00:21:42,269 --> 00:21:39,639
generation of UFO investigators that

498
00:21:45,479 --> 00:21:42,279
might also be another question and it's

499
00:21:47,909 --> 00:21:45,489
implied in some places amongst the list

500
00:21:50,369 --> 00:21:47,919
I have here but let's go into that young

501
00:21:52,709 --> 00:21:50,379
researchers anybody has potential of

502
00:21:54,180 --> 00:21:52,719
that kind of greatness Greg bishop well

503
00:21:57,089 --> 00:21:54,190
geez I can't think of any right now

504
00:21:59,629 --> 00:21:57,099
except for possibly Nick and Chris of

505
00:22:02,999 --> 00:21:59,639
course geez

506
00:22:05,789 --> 00:22:03,009
because it's I think the the potential

507
00:22:09,479 --> 00:22:05,799
for these people is the younger people

508
00:22:13,769 --> 00:22:09,489
has not been realized yet and the other

509
00:22:15,539 --> 00:22:13,779
thing is that I think a lot of the

510
00:22:18,299 --> 00:22:15,549
really good researchers are people

511
00:22:21,180 --> 00:22:18,309
you've never hear of people you just you

512
00:22:23,099 --> 00:22:21,190
know they don't they don't pop up on new

513
00:22:26,249 --> 00:22:23,109
shows they don't pop up with lectures

514
00:22:28,499 --> 00:22:26,259
they don't write any books maybe but

515
00:22:30,389 --> 00:22:28,509
they're but they you see them sometimes

516
00:22:32,909 --> 00:22:30,399
at conventions and maybe sometimes on

517
00:22:34,379 --> 00:22:32,919
message boards and all that and I think

518
00:22:36,539 --> 00:22:34,389
the good research and the good thought

519
00:22:39,930 --> 00:22:36,549
are coming from these quiet people that

520
00:22:41,759 --> 00:22:39,940
you you never hear up and pulling all

521
00:22:44,459 --> 00:22:41,769
these threads together is something that

522
00:22:46,109 --> 00:22:44,469
I like to do I think sometimes I just

523
00:22:48,539 --> 00:22:46,119
call myself a cheerleader for the stuff

524
00:22:51,299 --> 00:22:48,549
that interests me we have Greg Bishop

525
00:22:53,180 --> 00:22:51,309
Paul Campbell Chris O'Brien I'm gene

526
00:23:02,720 --> 00:22:53,190
Steinberg you're in the

527
00:23:05,090 --> 00:23:02,730
cast ray Perkins a reclusive veteran

528
00:23:07,340 --> 00:23:05,100
burned out from the Gulf War lives

529
00:23:09,530 --> 00:23:07,350
tortured by relentless perplexing

530
00:23:12,170 --> 00:23:09,540
nightmares nightmares of a horrific

531
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battle in deep space and of a mysterious

532
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woman suffering an agony for her

533
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devastated world a woman not yet born

534
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calling across centuries to him then a

535
00:23:27,770 --> 00:23:24,420
coincidence leads him to his destiny his

536
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chance to alter the universe attack of

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the Rockets the former fiction editor

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for Star Wars and Indiana Jones Robert

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Simpson writes the soul of the novel

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[Music]

638
00:27:32,580 --> 00:27:28,740
because we returned fifth anniversary

639
00:27:34,380 --> 00:27:32,590
episode of the para cast my co-host is

640
00:27:36,810 --> 00:27:34,390
Chris O'Brien we have Paul Campbell and

641
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:36,820
Greg Bishop joining us I can't promise

642
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:39,850
that they will agree or disagree with

643
00:27:44,190 --> 00:27:41,650
regard to what they say about these

644
00:27:46,620 --> 00:27:44,200
subjects but everything is fascinating

645
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:46,630
here now I'm trying to think also the

646
00:27:54,450 --> 00:27:50,890
people who are under 50 who got involved

647
00:27:56,700 --> 00:27:54,460
in UFO research after 1980 who are they

648
00:27:59,790 --> 00:27:56,710
Chris O'Brien how do you find yourself

649
00:28:02,850 --> 00:27:59,800
being included amongst the list of shall

650
00:28:06,030 --> 00:28:02,860
we say younger researchers well you got

651
00:28:07,710 --> 00:28:06,040
started before 1980 though well not in

652
00:28:09,090 --> 00:28:07,720
any sort of official capacity I've

653
00:28:12,180 --> 00:28:09,100
always had an interest since I was very

654
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:12,190
young but you know I got started in the

655
00:28:17,070 --> 00:28:13,930
early nineties really in terms of

656
00:28:19,650 --> 00:28:17,080
devoting time energy resources and and

657
00:28:21,870 --> 00:28:19,660
really good diving into it as fully as

658
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:21,880
possible but in answer to the question

659
00:28:25,050 --> 00:28:23,770
about young researchers I I do have a

660
00:28:26,910 --> 00:28:25,060
certain amount of respect for John

661
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:26,920
Greenwald I think he's done an amazing

662
00:28:31,710 --> 00:28:29,650
job with the FOI a requests and his

663
00:28:35,130 --> 00:28:31,720
black vault website I think that's a

664
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:35,140
tremendous resource for people in the

665
00:28:38,730 --> 00:28:36,850
field and he's someone that I think

666
00:28:41,130 --> 00:28:38,740
should be mentioned also Chris Beck and

667
00:28:43,170 --> 00:28:41,140
his research work with valet on wonders

668
00:28:46,110 --> 00:28:43,180
in the sky this most recent book that

669
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:46,120
valet has been a part of I think Chris

670
00:28:52,110 --> 00:28:48,970
saw Beck is a person a quiet trooper who

671
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:52,120
has some real skill in ferreting out

672
00:28:57,570 --> 00:28:55,090
historical cases other than that uh you

673
00:28:58,850 --> 00:28:57,580
know it's dang David Perkins would be

674
00:29:01,740 --> 00:28:58,860
somebody I think that doesn't get enough

675
00:29:04,250 --> 00:29:01,750
mentioned Tom Adams is another one who

676
00:29:06,390 --> 00:29:04,260
doesn't get mentioned very often anymore

677
00:29:08,940 --> 00:29:06,400
there have been you know there have been

678
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:08,950
some some unsung heroes that have fallen

679
00:29:13,830 --> 00:29:11,650
by the wayside like Tom unfortunately

680
00:29:16,260 --> 00:29:13,840
who I believe is out of the field at

681
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:16,270
least publicly and I think part of the

682
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:19,930
problem is the kids their attention

683
00:29:23,850 --> 00:29:21,970
spans are quite short and they don't I I

684
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:23,860
think I don't want to use too broad of a

685
00:29:27,750 --> 00:29:25,810
brush here but I think a lot of the kids

686
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:27,760
they just assume that these that these

687
00:29:31,830 --> 00:29:30,010
subjects are real and they don't want to

688
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:31,840
do the heavy lifting they they just you

689
00:29:34,470 --> 00:29:33,370
know they'll get their political news

690
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:34,480
from the Daily Show

691
00:29:38,490 --> 00:29:36,010
they'll tune into coast-to-coast

692
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:38,500
occasionally to get a chuckle and and

693
00:29:42,180 --> 00:29:40,090
they're just they don't have the

694
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:42,190
dedication and the drive to to really

695
00:29:46,230 --> 00:29:44,050
try to get to the bottom of it they're

696
00:29:47,910 --> 00:29:46,240
lacking as Paul put it the g-wiz factor

697
00:29:51,570 --> 00:29:47,920
and that's and I think that that's one

698
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:51,580
of the main reasons why we don't see you

699
00:29:57,300 --> 00:29:53,530
know the average age of UFO conference

700
00:29:59,760 --> 00:29:57,310
is below the age of 70 so unfortunate

701
00:30:02,820 --> 00:29:59,770
here is as the audience dies off the

702
00:30:04,530 --> 00:30:02,830
conventions get you know less well

703
00:30:07,770 --> 00:30:04,540
attended and they don't occur anymore

704
00:30:10,050 --> 00:30:07,780
you think about MUFON now how many of

705
00:30:11,490 --> 00:30:10,060
the people MUFON are in the 60s in the

706
00:30:13,710 --> 00:30:11,500
70s or maybe 80s

707
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:13,720
how many younger people join MUFON good

708
00:30:17,460 --> 00:30:14,770
question here's another question

709
00:30:19,380 --> 00:30:17,470
speaking of which we need conventions

710
00:30:21,030 --> 00:30:19,390
anymore that's another question well

711
00:30:22,650 --> 00:30:21,040
I'll tell you what you just asked it

712
00:30:25,650 --> 00:30:22,660
let's do that one before I ask the next

713
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:25,660
question so since you posed the question

714
00:30:31,650 --> 00:30:28,570
Greg Bishop answer it yourself go ahead

715
00:30:33,270 --> 00:30:31,660
I think we need maybe a few conventions

716
00:30:35,550 --> 00:30:33,280
just because people like getting

717
00:30:37,350 --> 00:30:35,560
together but because the internet I

718
00:30:39,030 --> 00:30:37,360
don't think we really actually need to

719
00:30:43,260 --> 00:30:39,040
physically be around each other anymore

720
00:30:45,150 --> 00:30:43,270
and spend all that money the first touch

721
00:30:48,180 --> 00:30:45,160
is great I think it should still be

722
00:30:51,660 --> 00:30:48,190
there and but if conventions almost

723
00:30:54,300 --> 00:30:51,670
disappeared I would probably not be very

724
00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:54,310
I wouldn't be sorry to see them go that

725
00:30:59,490 --> 00:30:57,610
much unless like we've been discussing a

726
00:31:01,500 --> 00:30:59,500
new crop of incredibly great researchers

727
00:31:02,910 --> 00:31:01,510
comes up then I suppose I'd like to meet

728
00:31:06,750 --> 00:31:02,920
and talk to him but I can also do that

729
00:31:09,170 --> 00:31:06,760
by chat or by phone so it'd be I haven't

730
00:31:12,420 --> 00:31:09,180
seen anybody do it yet but a all online

731
00:31:14,370 --> 00:31:12,430
convention would be great that's a great

732
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:14,380
idea and I think some people have made

733
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:16,890
noises about it but it hasn't actually

734
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:20,530
come to full fruition yet can you set up

735
00:31:23,700 --> 00:31:22,090
a group meeting though with enough

736
00:31:25,650 --> 00:31:23,710
people I'm not going about Skype I'm

737
00:31:27,390 --> 00:31:25,660
thinking maybe well I go to meeting one

738
00:31:29,730 --> 00:31:27,400
of our former sponsors from Citrix

739
00:31:31,260 --> 00:31:29,740
GoToMeeting common there other companies

740
00:31:33,930 --> 00:31:31,270
to do this where you can have an online

741
00:31:35,580 --> 00:31:33,940
meeting with lots of people and they can

742
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:35,590
all participate together of course you

743
00:31:40,500 --> 00:31:37,450
all have to have an internet connection

744
00:31:41,010 --> 00:31:40,510
so therefore Jim Mosley's is out the

745
00:31:42,630 --> 00:31:41,020
door he can

746
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:42,640
come to one because he will never have

747
00:31:47,550 --> 00:31:44,530
an internet connection Paul what's your

748
00:31:49,980 --> 00:31:47,560
feeling my feeling is that none of us

749
00:31:51,900 --> 00:31:49,990
and I include us here but certainly

750
00:31:55,650 --> 00:31:51,910
those other researchers we mentioned

751
00:31:58,260 --> 00:31:55,660
none of us understands Generation Y and

752
00:32:00,480 --> 00:31:58,270
because of the technological shift there

753
00:32:02,700 --> 00:32:00,490
is a massive difference between how they

754
00:32:04,950 --> 00:32:02,710
look at information and the sharing and

755
00:32:07,530 --> 00:32:04,960
exchange of it and how my generation

756
00:32:10,500 --> 00:32:07,540
which you know is not that old I'm only

757
00:32:12,810 --> 00:32:10,510
44 but then we're certainly not over the

758
00:32:13,980 --> 00:32:12,820
hill but I don't consider in on top I'm

759
00:32:15,570 --> 00:32:13,990
not talking about people who are under

760
00:32:18,450 --> 00:32:15,580
50 I'm talking about where are the

761
00:32:21,450 --> 00:32:18,460
people under 25 these are incredibly I

762
00:32:23,250 --> 00:32:21,460
was at a telephone can be put on an

763
00:32:25,770 --> 00:32:23,260
internet marketing distribution of

764
00:32:29,070 --> 00:32:25,780
financing seminar a week and a half ago

765
00:32:31,230 --> 00:32:29,080
that I went to and very much a lot of

766
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:31,240
gee whiz stuff from the from that point

767
00:32:35,310 --> 00:32:33,130
of view but things like IndieGoGo and

768
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:35,320
Kickstarter how film musicians knew this

769
00:32:39,210 --> 00:32:37,450
10 years ago but how film is changing

770
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:39,220
how you can raise money on the internet

771
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:41,170
to do specific projects how you build

772
00:32:47,250 --> 00:32:44,410
communities but but how the generations

773
00:32:49,470 --> 00:32:47,260
look at these things differently and so

774
00:32:51,420 --> 00:32:49,480
if you're talking about conferences the

775
00:32:53,730 --> 00:32:51,430
older generation even my generation

776
00:32:56,220 --> 00:32:53,740
perhaps would see it as their go Stan

777
00:32:58,590 --> 00:32:56,230
Friedman or whomever standing on stage

778
00:33:01,050 --> 00:32:58,600
delivering a lecture to 300 people

779
00:33:04,050 --> 00:33:01,060
sitting and listening to them that is

780
00:33:06,780 --> 00:33:04,060
not how information is exchanged with

781
00:33:08,370 --> 00:33:06,790
the younger generation today this they

782
00:33:09,810 --> 00:33:08,380
ran a series of studies and they showed

783
00:33:11,460 --> 00:33:09,820
it's a generation that's much more

784
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:11,470
hopeful than mine was you know the

785
00:33:15,990 --> 00:33:13,810
Nirvana slacker Generation X thing

786
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:16,000
they're very hopeful they get engaged in

787
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:18,010
a wide range of things so they're not

788
00:33:22,230 --> 00:33:20,410
lazy and if you watch the any protests

789
00:33:25,020 --> 00:33:22,240
you know WTO or anything these are

790
00:33:26,970 --> 00:33:25,030
people that if you motivate them will go

791
00:33:29,460 --> 00:33:26,980
out and actually participate which I

792
00:33:31,020 --> 00:33:29,470
don't recall my generation doing I don't

793
00:33:33,990 --> 00:33:31,030
remember any protests in the 80s or the

794
00:33:36,030 --> 00:33:34,000
90s really so an untapped market out

795
00:33:38,670 --> 00:33:36,040
there and I think the problem is not

796
00:33:41,130 --> 00:33:38,680
them the problem is the failure of the

797
00:33:42,930 --> 00:33:41,140
UFO community research community and

798
00:33:45,060 --> 00:33:42,940
I'll even say the serious UFO research

799
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:45,070
community to engage them in a way that

800
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:47,170
is meaningful for them that speaks to

801
00:33:50,730 --> 00:33:49,330
their language and how they interact

802
00:33:53,250 --> 00:33:50,740
with each other just trying to

803
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:53,260
understand them and it's been an it's

804
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:54,130
been an abject

805
00:33:59,130 --> 00:33:56,050
failure and the result will be that

806
00:34:01,350 --> 00:33:59,140
ufology whatever it is is you know it's

807
00:34:03,870 --> 00:34:01,360
like the the parrot in Monty Python skit

808
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:03,880
it's it's resting its pining for the

809
00:34:07,980 --> 00:34:06,010
fjords of Norway and it's almost gone

810
00:34:09,869 --> 00:34:07,990
and I think that's that might not be a

811
00:34:11,700 --> 00:34:09,879
bad thing because something new is going

812
00:34:13,649 --> 00:34:11,710
to replace it and I think it's gonna be

813
00:34:15,659 --> 00:34:13,659
more in tune with what those that

814
00:34:17,879 --> 00:34:15,669
younger generation is interested in and

815
00:34:19,740 --> 00:34:17,889
then it's going to be us that has to

816
00:34:21,869 --> 00:34:19,750
adjust how they do things and that's

817
00:34:23,550 --> 00:34:21,879
probably a good thing yeah exactly what

818
00:34:27,149 --> 00:34:23,560
Paul said everything I was trying to say

819
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:27,159
he elaborated perfectly yeah I can't I

820
00:34:34,050 --> 00:34:31,450
couldn't agree more I really do see a

821
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:34,060
major generational gap as Paul pointed

822
00:34:39,750 --> 00:34:36,450
out between the you know the original

823
00:34:41,430 --> 00:34:39,760
Vanguard that's still around in this

824
00:34:43,409 --> 00:34:41,440
field and how they disseminate

825
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:43,419
information to one another it's old

826
00:34:47,970 --> 00:34:45,490
school we're in the 21st century now and

827
00:34:49,830 --> 00:34:47,980
we need to adapt the technology in such

828
00:34:52,649 --> 00:34:49,840
a way that it keeps the the younger

829
00:34:54,869 --> 00:34:52,659
generations engaged like Paul said we

830
00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:54,879
need to come up with a common common

831
00:34:59,880 --> 00:34:57,850
ground and common language it all boils

832
00:35:02,610 --> 00:34:59,890
down to languaging and I think the whole

833
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:02,620
idea of community as Paul pointed out to

834
00:35:06,090 --> 00:35:04,210
is very important if you can get people

835
00:35:08,550 --> 00:35:06,100
motivated get them interested in a

836
00:35:11,970 --> 00:35:08,560
particular community I think your your

837
00:35:14,430 --> 00:35:11,980
chances of succeeding Norlin are greatly

838
00:35:16,110 --> 00:35:14,440
increased Willie can we exploit like

839
00:35:18,350 --> 00:35:16,120
Twitter and Facebook for something like

840
00:35:21,060 --> 00:35:18,360
this I mean we all have presences on

841
00:35:22,860 --> 00:35:21,070
Facebook and Twitter but I don't know

842
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:22,870
that we're exploiting them into the way

843
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:26,650
that it could be exploited no no UFO

844
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:28,330
researcher that I know of is and I

845
00:35:32,700 --> 00:35:30,010
include my school you know I'm not a UFO

846
00:35:34,650 --> 00:35:32,710
researcher and to me it's a it's a part

847
00:35:37,290 --> 00:35:34,660
time interest so if I'm gonna exploit

848
00:35:39,450 --> 00:35:37,300
social media it will be for my business

849
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:39,460
you know making films and stuff but

850
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:41,050
nobody that I know of is really

851
00:35:45,900 --> 00:35:43,690
exploiting it and you need Chris talked

852
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:45,910
about the need to what you didn't

853
00:35:49,050 --> 00:35:47,530
mention it specifically but it's implied

854
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:49,060
that if you're going to do field

855
00:35:54,180 --> 00:35:52,330
research you do need money equipment can

856
00:35:55,470 --> 00:35:54,190
be expensive even the inexpensive

857
00:35:57,690 --> 00:35:55,480
equipment can be expensive

858
00:35:59,460 --> 00:35:57,700
you also need frankly I think probably

859
00:36:01,830 --> 00:35:59,470
maybe to hire some people if you have an

860
00:36:03,420 --> 00:36:01,840
organization however you want to look at

861
00:36:05,670 --> 00:36:03,430
it you're going to need some resources

862
00:36:08,010 --> 00:36:05,680
there are my used to race use social

863
00:36:10,290 --> 00:36:08,020
media to raise money you don't

864
00:36:12,180 --> 00:36:10,300
just want people chatting on an internet

865
00:36:14,010 --> 00:36:12,190
forum that's useful it's a good first

866
00:36:15,690 --> 00:36:14,020
step but there has to be an end game and

867
00:36:17,220 --> 00:36:15,700
the end game has to be to get them

868
00:36:19,050 --> 00:36:17,230
involved in one of two ways either

869
00:36:22,140 --> 00:36:19,060
actually doing the work themselves and

870
00:36:24,270 --> 00:36:22,150
some will or providing frankly money and

871
00:36:26,940 --> 00:36:24,280
resources as simple as hey everybody

872
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:26,950
gone coast to coast with say 3 million

873
00:36:30,330 --> 00:36:29,050
listeners and try and get 1% of the

874
00:36:32,340 --> 00:36:30,340
people that are listening appeal

875
00:36:34,620 --> 00:36:32,350
directly to them and say we have this

876
00:36:36,810 --> 00:36:34,630
fund we want each of you to donate 10

877
00:36:39,750 --> 00:36:36,820
dollars only that's a that's a happy

878
00:36:42,150 --> 00:36:39,760
meal at McDonald's or whatever $10 each

879
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:42,160
of you 30,000 people you know there's

880
00:36:46,470 --> 00:36:44,410
300 thousand dollars that would fund a

881
00:36:48,660 --> 00:36:46,480
reasonably half-decent research effort

882
00:36:51,240 --> 00:36:48,670
for a year Paul Campbell Greg Bishop

883
00:36:55,150 --> 00:36:51,250
here co-host Chris O'Brien I'm gene

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Steinberg you're in the para cast

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that there are people governments

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corporations and whole professions

939
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intent on short-circuiting humanity's

940
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well-being GMO food legislation

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protecting big agriculture the attempted

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elimination of vitamins and alternative

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medicines it seems their hand has been

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tipped they want to dictate your health

945
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wealth and your longevity whatever the

946
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outcome we have a solution wild edible

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food why worry about food when all has

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been provided we imagine that we were

949
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ejected from the garden and never

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invited back but the gardens still here

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there is an endless wild abundance which

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grows all over our green earth just

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waiting for you to wake up and see it

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let all in to run and teach you how to

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961
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years ago my cardiologist said surgery

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searching for great talk radio something

991
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more important search through overrule

992
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we are the GCM radio network you never

993
00:41:27,890 --> 00:41:24,950
we return with co-host Chris O'Brien our

994
00:41:29,930 --> 00:41:27,900
guests Greg Bishop Paul Campbell talking

995
00:41:32,569 --> 00:41:29,940
shop the fifth anniversary of the para

996
00:41:35,269 --> 00:41:32,579
cast and speaking of ways that maybe we

997
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:35,279
can cause the next generation of

998
00:41:40,489 --> 00:41:38,130
potential UFO investigators to take a

999
00:41:43,039 --> 00:41:40,499
look and see whether they could be

1000
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:43,049
persuaded to become interested in this

1001
00:41:50,599 --> 00:41:46,249
subject in the generation of YouTube

1002
00:41:53,210 --> 00:41:50,609
Twitter Facebook texting all this stuff

1003
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:53,220
how do we do it let's go into some more

1004
00:41:58,069 --> 00:41:55,890
questions here and this actually refers

1005
00:41:59,930 --> 00:41:58,079
to the para cast and I don't know

1006
00:42:02,450 --> 00:41:59,940
whether all our co-hosts have heard

1007
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:02,460
every episode I have at least twice and

1008
00:42:08,059 --> 00:42:04,410
I understand I'm going for rescue next

1009
00:42:10,609 --> 00:42:08,069
week okay let's ask you Greg Bishop

1010
00:42:12,950 --> 00:42:10,619
you've done some shows here do you think

1011
00:42:17,210 --> 00:42:12,960
that among the guests you've interviewed

1012
00:42:19,940 --> 00:42:17,220
or heard of anybody really taught you

1013
00:42:21,739 --> 00:42:19,950
something new peculiar unexpected from

1014
00:42:24,049 --> 00:42:21,749
an episode from the show an interview I

1015
00:42:24,829 --> 00:42:24,059
think the questions teach me something

1016
00:42:27,319 --> 00:42:24,839
new

1017
00:42:29,359 --> 00:42:27,329
a lot of Chris's questions teach me

1018
00:42:33,940 --> 00:42:29,369
something new what sticks out it

1019
00:42:38,479 --> 00:42:36,979
choice is the interviews with Mac Tony's

1020
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:38,489
because I talked to him of course

1021
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:40,890
personally but then in an interview

1022
00:42:46,849 --> 00:42:43,410
format he really has to push his his

1023
00:42:48,470 --> 00:42:46,859
ideas and his what he's trying what you

1024
00:42:50,660 --> 00:42:48,480
know what he's trying to prove and what

1025
00:42:51,950 --> 00:42:50,670
it's thought process is and sometimes if

1026
00:42:54,979 --> 00:42:51,960
you know somebody well enough you don't

1027
00:42:56,870 --> 00:42:54,989
really do that and you get a a different

1028
00:43:00,019 --> 00:42:56,880
perspective when somebody else is asking

1029
00:43:03,829 --> 00:43:00,029
the questions as far as somebody that

1030
00:43:05,930 --> 00:43:03,839
sticks out hmm I can't think of anybody

1031
00:43:07,279 --> 00:43:05,940
right now probably maybe Richard Dolan

1032
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:07,289
with some of the things that I didn't

1033
00:43:14,930 --> 00:43:12,930
expect he would say okay Chris well

1034
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:14,940
that's a tough one there's you know I

1035
00:43:20,450 --> 00:43:17,450
have listened to a majority of the shows

1036
00:43:24,380 --> 00:43:20,460
and it's it's really difficult for me to

1037
00:43:25,579 --> 00:43:24,390
attempt to pick out a single guest there

1038
00:43:30,470 --> 00:43:25,589
have been little vignettes here and

1039
00:43:32,970 --> 00:43:30,480
there that I found intriguing but that's

1040
00:43:34,830 --> 00:43:32,980
that's a tough one I really wouldn't

1041
00:43:36,930 --> 00:43:34,840
I'd have to think about that asked me

1042
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:36,940
that later I'll put my hat on and and

1043
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:39,130
kind of think about that because we've

1044
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:40,930
had some real good guests on the show

1045
00:43:46,020 --> 00:43:43,690
over the years and and it'll be really

1046
00:43:47,370 --> 00:43:46,030
tough to boil it down it would depend on

1047
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:47,380
maybe the subject or something

1048
00:43:52,290 --> 00:43:49,690
rain check time for Chris O'Brien Paul

1049
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:52,300
Campbell oh you be a two-part answer

1050
00:43:55,620 --> 00:43:53,890
gene first of all from an entertainment

1051
00:43:58,620 --> 00:43:55,630
point of view because it is you know

1052
00:44:01,890 --> 00:43:58,630
it's radio it's entertainment the Steve

1053
00:44:03,750 --> 00:44:01,900
Bassett meltdown that was that one yeah

1054
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:03,760
I have a reason why I might have rated

1055
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:05,410
that one but of course this is like the

1056
00:44:09,810 --> 00:44:06,970
second time Steve Bassett appeared on

1057
00:44:12,450 --> 00:44:09,820
the show I think back in 2006 or 2007

1058
00:44:15,150 --> 00:44:12,460
and we pressed him on some very simple

1059
00:44:17,099 --> 00:44:15,160
areas about you know why do you have

1060
00:44:18,599 --> 00:44:17,109
crazy people at some of your conventions

1061
00:44:21,720 --> 00:44:18,609
along with some pretty serious people

1062
00:44:23,670 --> 00:44:21,730
and he went ballistic yeah well you know

1063
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:23,680
I had had a personal experience with him

1064
00:44:28,020 --> 00:44:25,570
where he stood up we were having a

1065
00:44:29,340 --> 00:44:28,030
discussion along with I think Nick Pope

1066
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:29,350
Rob's mone there were some other people

1067
00:44:34,260 --> 00:44:31,570
there at the Laughlin conference one

1068
00:44:36,240 --> 00:44:34,270
year and Bassett gets so agitated when I

1069
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:36,250
basically said you know you need to if

1070
00:44:39,030 --> 00:44:37,090
you want to be make a positive

1071
00:44:41,460 --> 00:44:39,040
contribution stop inviting Alfred Weber

1072
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:41,470
and substitute them with I don't know

1073
00:44:45,510 --> 00:44:43,690
great initiative or anybody and Bassett

1074
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:45,520
said something along the lines of you

1075
00:44:49,140 --> 00:44:46,690
don't know what you're talking about

1076
00:44:53,700 --> 00:44:49,150
stood up turned around slapped his butt

1077
00:44:55,740 --> 00:44:53,710
in my face walked off and I just thought

1078
00:44:58,140 --> 00:44:55,750
well okay yeah that try doing that with

1079
00:45:01,260 --> 00:44:58,150
a congressman you you who is the only

1080
00:45:02,580 --> 00:45:01,270
UFO lobbyist in Washington see how that

1081
00:45:04,950 --> 00:45:02,590
gives you with the Secret Service or

1082
00:45:06,810 --> 00:45:04,960
something so interesting here to Paul is

1083
00:45:08,700 --> 00:45:06,820
that in a sense his meltdown on the

1084
00:45:11,460 --> 00:45:08,710
power cast was very much the equivalent

1085
00:45:14,190 --> 00:45:11,470
of what you're describing in person yeah

1086
00:45:15,770 --> 00:45:14,200
and and you know what I've talked about

1087
00:45:18,330 --> 00:45:15,780
in a number of times I can have a

1088
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:18,340
pleasant conversation with them until

1089
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:20,050
it's you start talking about what he

1090
00:45:24,570 --> 00:45:23,170
does and then he doesn't broke any

1091
00:45:26,430 --> 00:45:24,580
criticism which goes back to the very

1092
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:26,440
first question on this show what's wrong

1093
00:45:30,870 --> 00:45:28,450
with you follow gee too many people like

1094
00:45:33,540 --> 00:45:30,880
Steve Bassett who if you challenge what

1095
00:45:35,670 --> 00:45:33,550
they're saying arguments fine heated

1096
00:45:37,770 --> 00:45:35,680
argument is fine but they basically

1097
00:45:39,270 --> 00:45:37,780
stand up turn around and slap their butt

1098
00:45:41,070 --> 00:45:39,280
in your face and then walk away and

1099
00:45:43,349 --> 00:45:41,080
that's not productive but it is

1100
00:45:46,390 --> 00:45:43,359
entertaining so that's why I split the

1101
00:45:48,130 --> 00:45:46,400
my answer to you know dying son had

1102
00:45:49,779 --> 00:45:48,140
that's the question about that from our

1103
00:45:53,410 --> 00:45:49,789
forums and he also said I want genes

1104
00:45:56,319 --> 00:45:53,420
opinion which one won the award as the

1105
00:45:58,180 --> 00:45:56,329
worst episode of the para cast yet now I

1106
00:46:00,430 --> 00:45:58,190
don't know if they consider worst or

1107
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:00,440
most significant certainly the Steve

1108
00:46:07,870 --> 00:46:04,010
Bassett meltdown bill no I had a chance

1109
00:46:11,289 --> 00:46:07,880
to look at the list now it's in 30

1110
00:46:13,990 --> 00:46:11,299
minutes bill now hung up after we simply

1111
00:46:17,500 --> 00:46:14,000
confronted his as they say deceptions

1112
00:46:19,779 --> 00:46:17,510
also of course Steven Greer had a semi

1113
00:46:21,490 --> 00:46:19,789
meltdown on one of her episodes but one

1114
00:46:27,269 --> 00:46:21,500
of the more recent ones that Chris and I

1115
00:46:30,390 --> 00:46:27,279
participated in Anthony Sanchez oh yeah

1116
00:46:33,549 --> 00:46:30,400
Chris tell us about that

1117
00:46:36,099 --> 00:46:33,559
well Anthony uh you know I really think

1118
00:46:37,900 --> 00:46:36,109
he's he's a nice guy I actually spent a

1119
00:46:40,599 --> 00:46:37,910
couple hours with him at the angel fire

1120
00:46:43,269 --> 00:46:40,609
conference last September he's very

1121
00:46:45,609 --> 00:46:43,279
enthusiastic he's not that well-versed

1122
00:46:48,279 --> 00:46:45,619
in the subject matter and he obviously

1123
00:46:51,250 --> 00:46:48,289
has not had much experience representing

1124
00:46:53,589 --> 00:46:51,260
his views publicly like you know for him

1125
00:46:55,630 --> 00:46:53,599
like like the the para cast on radio

1126
00:46:57,760 --> 00:46:55,640
shows and he was making these large

1127
00:47:00,760 --> 00:46:57,770
sweeping statements that didn't have the

1128
00:47:02,829 --> 00:47:00,770
word alleged in front of them had to

1129
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:02,839
remind him a couple of times that you're

1130
00:47:06,370 --> 00:47:04,490
alleging something you're not you know

1131
00:47:09,309 --> 00:47:06,380
you shouldn't be stating it as fact and

1132
00:47:12,099 --> 00:47:09,319
I think he took it he took it pretty

1133
00:47:13,930 --> 00:47:12,109
well but he had a bit of a meltdown

1134
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:13,940
two days later if I remember correctly

1135
00:47:19,870 --> 00:47:17,210
and sent out a very disturbing email to

1136
00:47:21,519 --> 00:47:19,880
anyone that cared to read it about his

1137
00:47:24,190 --> 00:47:21,529
leaving the field the books not coming

1138
00:47:26,049 --> 00:47:24,200
out and you know Colonel exes you know

1139
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:26,059
needs throwing him under the bus or

1140
00:47:30,579 --> 00:47:28,490
whatever and and then all of a sudden he

1141
00:47:32,769 --> 00:47:30,589
had a complete turnaround about a week

1142
00:47:35,190 --> 00:47:32,779
later and released his book as an e-book

1143
00:47:38,980 --> 00:47:35,200
and and we have another chapter in the

1144
00:47:41,950 --> 00:47:38,990
the growing myth around the Dulce base

1145
00:47:44,589 --> 00:47:41,960
underground there so have you read the

1146
00:47:46,059 --> 00:47:44,599
book Chris no I haven't well I'll tell

1147
00:47:48,370 --> 00:47:46,069
you what I asked him for a reviewers

1148
00:47:50,589 --> 00:47:48,380
copy he never responded I think he was

1149
00:47:51,819 --> 00:47:50,599
embarrassed I think that's part of it

1150
00:47:54,460 --> 00:47:51,829
right there I think when you bring

1151
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:54,470
someone on and they prove to be less

1152
00:47:58,750 --> 00:47:56,930
than you expected let's move beyond that

1153
00:48:00,190 --> 00:47:58,760
there's so many questions here I don't

1154
00:48:04,599 --> 00:48:00,200
want to dwell on Anthony

1155
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:04,609
says Bill Nelson Steven Greer or few

1156
00:48:10,060 --> 00:48:06,410
more other people that maybe we should

1157
00:48:11,260 --> 00:48:10,070
disappointed in because yeah if I if I

1158
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:11,270
can just say I give the entertain II

1159
00:48:15,790 --> 00:48:12,890
answer the the answer I would give for

1160
00:48:18,010 --> 00:48:15,800
the best show would be any show with

1161
00:48:20,349 --> 00:48:18,020
guys and I'll just talk about guys that

1162
00:48:23,970 --> 00:48:20,359
I knew like Dave Sadler and Steve Mara

1163
00:48:26,829 --> 00:48:23,980
who do real research in the field and

1164
00:48:29,349 --> 00:48:26,839
careful research they're skeptics if

1165
00:48:31,630 --> 00:48:29,359
they say they have something they will

1166
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:31,640
show it to you those kinds of episodes

1167
00:48:34,990 --> 00:48:33,770
but those kinds of people on this show

1168
00:48:37,060 --> 00:48:35,000
or any other show are the ones that

1169
00:48:39,220 --> 00:48:37,070
people should be listening to and those

1170
00:48:40,780 --> 00:48:39,230
are the ones that I enjoy and listen to

1171
00:48:42,579 --> 00:48:40,790
so to answer your original question

1172
00:48:44,500 --> 00:48:42,589
about what the best show was you know

1173
00:48:46,599 --> 00:48:44,510
the Sandler Mara show for me that I

1174
00:48:48,310 --> 00:48:46,609
participated in but there are other ones

1175
00:48:50,859 --> 00:48:48,320
with people that actually walk the walk

1176
00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:50,869
end or talk the talk but they also walk

1177
00:48:55,030 --> 00:48:52,730
the walk they'll back it up when you ask

1178
00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:55,040
them for it those are your notes I did

1179
00:48:58,660 --> 00:48:56,930
fill in broad no.22 that list

1180
00:49:01,569 --> 00:48:58,670
yeah you know Phil would be way up there

1181
00:49:04,390 --> 00:49:01,579
in my top five definitely and I think

1182
00:49:07,059 --> 00:49:04,400
he's with Stan Gordon to some of okay

1183
00:49:08,410 --> 00:49:07,069
sister or just jaw-dropping and I'm

1184
00:49:11,140 --> 00:49:08,420
amazed that more people aren't aware of

1185
00:49:12,819 --> 00:49:11,150
his 40 years of work in Pennsylvania you

1186
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:12,829
know well we talked about Pennsylvania

1187
00:49:16,900 --> 00:49:14,810
there is one other yes I was

1188
00:49:18,339 --> 00:49:16,910
disappointed in not because of the show

1189
00:49:19,540 --> 00:49:18,349
which I thought was good but because of

1190
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:19,550
what happened after that

1191
00:49:24,819 --> 00:49:23,450
butch Witkowski well what yes now what's

1192
00:49:26,470 --> 00:49:24,829
happened here is you know he was

1193
00:49:29,020 --> 00:49:26,480
supposed to be a big muckety-muck in the

1194
00:49:31,059 --> 00:49:29,030
Pennsylvania MUFON and all that had all

1195
00:49:32,859 --> 00:49:31,069
these credentials and suddenly a private

1196
00:49:34,690 --> 00:49:32,869
detective goes around and finds that a

1197
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:34,700
lot of his credentials were false that

1198
00:49:39,730 --> 00:49:37,130
he had been convicted of a felony we

1199
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:39,740
asked butch to come on the power cast or

1200
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:41,690
send me a statement where he would

1201
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:43,490
correct the record if he felt but

1202
00:49:47,470 --> 00:49:45,770
somebody must stated it he first said

1203
00:49:50,230 --> 00:49:47,480
what was this about then wrote me a

1204
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:50,240
letter after that saying well no he's

1205
00:49:53,020 --> 00:49:51,530
going to concentrate on research

1206
00:49:55,630 --> 00:49:53,030
privately he's not going to answer

1207
00:49:57,520 --> 00:49:55,640
anything which in effect as far as I'm

1208
00:49:59,740 --> 00:49:57,530
concerned that's a confession because I

1209
00:50:01,990 --> 00:49:59,750
think if you're accused of being that

1210
00:50:04,859 --> 00:50:02,000
deceptive and if those accusations are

1211
00:50:07,510 --> 00:50:04,869
false the first thing you would do to

1212
00:50:09,940 --> 00:50:07,520
get on there and refute those

1213
00:50:11,500 --> 00:50:09,950
accusations you wouldn't say well I'm

1214
00:50:13,460 --> 00:50:11,510
not gonna respond to this I'm going to

1215
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:13,470
go away well he went away good

1216
00:50:16,339 --> 00:50:15,210
goodbye good luck I mean if you

1217
00:50:17,839 --> 00:50:16,349
want to hear the show it's still on

1218
00:50:20,210 --> 00:50:17,849
there I'm not gonna take a show off

1219
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:20,220
strictly because it gas turned out to be

1220
00:50:24,740 --> 00:50:22,530
disappointing I think I mean you'll see

1221
00:50:26,930 --> 00:50:24,750
a few other guests along the way where

1222
00:50:28,490 --> 00:50:26,940
maybe they weren't able to prove what

1223
00:50:30,589 --> 00:50:28,500
they claimed to have been able to prove

1224
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:30,599
but we're trying to cover a broad

1225
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:33,090
spectrum here but those possibly are the

1226
00:50:38,170 --> 00:50:35,970
worst ones now as I said before we have

1227
00:50:41,210 --> 00:50:38,180
so many questions here we can do a

1228
00:50:43,940 --> 00:50:41,220
10-hour show we've basically covered as

1229
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:43,950
I say probably almost a quarter a third

1230
00:50:48,260 --> 00:50:44,970
of the show right now

1231
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:48,270
and unfortunately we're not gonna get to

1232
00:50:52,130 --> 00:50:50,010
all this but we're gonna ask a few of

1233
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:52,140
these questions of our guests and we're

1234
00:50:56,870 --> 00:50:54,330
to see where we can go I would say this

1235
00:50:59,230 --> 00:50:56,880
in the five years that we've had the

1236
00:51:02,270 --> 00:50:59,240
power cast I've learned an awful lot

1237
00:51:04,490 --> 00:51:02,280
about the UFO and paranormal field also

1238
00:51:07,580 --> 00:51:04,500
with me because I've been involved in

1239
00:51:09,830 --> 00:51:07,590
this crazy thing so long I got to become

1240
00:51:11,420 --> 00:51:09,840
reacquainted with people I hadn't talked

1241
00:51:14,240 --> 00:51:11,430
to in a while like Jerome Clark for

1242
00:51:16,490 --> 00:51:14,250
example you know hadn't talked with him

1243
00:51:18,890 --> 00:51:16,500
in years he came on the show two or

1244
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:18,900
three times Kurtz suddenly who was also

1245
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:21,530
an unsung hero in UFO research in

1246
00:51:26,810 --> 00:51:24,210
Pennsylvania dear friend of mine has

1247
00:51:29,270 --> 00:51:26,820
done a lot of personal investigations

1248
00:51:31,370 --> 00:51:29,280
he's a former journalist newspaper

1249
00:51:33,770 --> 00:51:31,380
reporter he does a lot of digging also I

1250
00:51:36,260 --> 00:51:33,780
think deserves recognition our guest

1251
00:51:38,570 --> 00:51:36,270
Paul Kimbo Greg Bishop the co-host is

1252
00:51:47,230 --> 00:51:38,580
Chris O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg you're

1253
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:49,680
[Music]

1254
00:51:54,730 --> 00:51:52,490
hi Ted Anderson announcing a great way

1255
00:51:56,950 --> 00:51:54,740
to listen to radio on the telephone by

1256
00:51:59,020 --> 00:51:56,960
calling seven six oh five six nine

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00:52:01,570 --> 00:51:59,030
seventy seven hundred you'll be hearing

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00:52:04,030 --> 00:52:01,580
juicy and live.com programs in seconds

1259
00:52:06,340 --> 00:52:04,040
come to GC and live.com find your

1260
00:52:09,340 --> 00:52:06,350
favorite host dedicated phone number and

1261
00:52:11,830 --> 00:52:09,350
hear them 24/7 you heard me right every

1262
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:11,840
show has a dedicated phone number stop

1263
00:52:16,750 --> 00:52:14,450
by GC and live.com and bookmark their

1264
00:52:19,230 --> 00:52:16,760
number today and again that's seven six

1265
00:52:21,850 --> 00:52:19,240
oh five six nine seventy seven hundred

1266
00:52:23,950 --> 00:52:21,860
we the people grow cotton wheat fabric

1267
00:52:25,570 --> 00:52:23,960
engraving can bed strips and fibers to

1268
00:52:27,310 --> 00:52:25,580
protect from counterfeit and carding to

1269
00:52:27,850 --> 00:52:27,320
a private bank having a led back at

1270
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:27,860
interest

1271
00:52:31,390 --> 00:52:29,570
forcing taxes to surfaced at this

1272
00:52:32,860 --> 00:52:31,400
capitalism or was Jefferson correct when

1273
00:52:34,510 --> 00:52:32,870
stating a central bank issuing the

1274
00:52:35,620 --> 00:52:34,520
public currency is a greater menace to

1275
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:35,630
the liberties of the people than a

1276
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:37,010
standing army today understand I'm

1277
00:52:40,270 --> 00:52:38,450
placing a free silver dollar in a book

1278
00:52:43,720 --> 00:52:40,280
that explains our monetary system call

1279
00:52:46,900 --> 00:52:43,730
for your copy 800 686 to 237 it's time

1280
00:52:55,570 --> 00:52:46,910
to understand the system call 866 to 237

1281
00:52:57,520 --> 00:52:55,580
that's 800 686 to 237 welcome back to

1282
00:53:00,820 --> 00:52:57,530
the pair cast the gold standard of

1283
00:53:06,030 --> 00:53:00,830
paranormal radio and now here's gene

1284
00:53:11,470 --> 00:53:09,520
this is our to of the para cast Chris

1285
00:53:14,260 --> 00:53:11,480
O'Brien's the co-host I'm Jean Steinberg

1286
00:53:16,030 --> 00:53:14,270
we brought along some former co-hosts

1287
00:53:17,980 --> 00:53:16,040
and our guest co-hosts because they're

1288
00:53:20,049 --> 00:53:17,990
dear friends of mine and they have so

1289
00:53:22,660 --> 00:53:20,059
much to say this is a way of talking

1290
00:53:25,450 --> 00:53:22,670
shop answering your questions Greg

1291
00:53:27,549 --> 00:53:25,460
Bishop Paul Campbell Paul we miss you

1292
00:53:29,049 --> 00:53:27,559
terribly and I hope you'll get back on

1293
00:53:31,270 --> 00:53:29,059
the show more often because you always

1294
00:53:33,460 --> 00:53:31,280
have such great insights in fact you

1295
00:53:35,140 --> 00:53:33,470
have one of our premiere moments on the

1296
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:35,150
para cast this is one of my favorite

1297
00:53:41,319 --> 00:53:37,130
moments where in referring to the Aztec

1298
00:53:44,799 --> 00:53:41,329
New Mexico crash case you know it's the

1299
00:53:47,410 --> 00:53:44,809
one where Scott Ramsey and Frank Warren

1300
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:47,420
are still engaged by the way Scott

1301
00:53:51,790 --> 00:53:49,490
Ramsay's book supposedly is gonna be out

1302
00:53:52,059 --> 00:53:51,800
this year you know I believe when I see

1303
00:53:54,609 --> 00:53:52,069
it

1304
00:53:56,890 --> 00:53:54,619
but you Paul made that statement about

1305
00:53:59,470 --> 00:53:56,900
the fact that the Aztec case is like

1306
00:54:02,349 --> 00:53:59,480
Dracula you drive a stake through it

1307
00:54:04,240 --> 00:54:02,359
that keeps coming back I think of John

1308
00:54:07,180 --> 00:54:04,250
Carradine in the movie house of Dracula

1309
00:54:09,460 --> 00:54:07,190
from the 1940s you know I'm one of the

1310
00:54:14,260 --> 00:54:09,470
idiots that actually pulled the stake

1311
00:54:16,780 --> 00:54:14,270
out too so it's six or seven years ago I

1312
00:54:18,549 --> 00:54:16,790
I was making do you believe in magic so

1313
00:54:20,260 --> 00:54:18,559
here's the full story I was doing that

1314
00:54:22,359 --> 00:54:20,270
for Canadian Network but we were really

1315
00:54:25,990 --> 00:54:22,369
short on the budget I mean really short

1316
00:54:27,460 --> 00:54:26,000
even for one of my UFO films and so I

1317
00:54:29,859 --> 00:54:27,470
was scrounging around trying to raise

1318
00:54:31,390 --> 00:54:29,869
money outside traditional sources and

1319
00:54:33,059 --> 00:54:31,400
Stan Friedman hooked me up with Scott

1320
00:54:36,190 --> 00:54:33,069
Ramsay said look I've heard of this

1321
00:54:39,490 --> 00:54:36,200
Ramsay guy he talking about the Aztec

1322
00:54:42,069 --> 00:54:39,500
case turns out long story short has two

1323
00:54:44,230 --> 00:54:42,079
Rams he had 12 or 13 investors who could

1324
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:44,240
raise about a grand each and I basically

1325
00:54:48,849 --> 00:54:46,490
just piggyback one film on the other

1326
00:54:50,260 --> 00:54:48,859
went out to Aztec filmed pretty much

1327
00:54:52,660 --> 00:54:50,270
everybody I needed to film for the

1328
00:54:54,460 --> 00:54:52,670
majestic 12 film and at the same time

1329
00:54:56,380 --> 00:54:54,470
like Carlock was a good example

1330
00:54:58,059 --> 00:54:56,390
I just ran one interview and then said

1331
00:55:00,039 --> 00:54:58,069
okay let's take half an hour have a

1332
00:55:02,079 --> 00:55:00,049
glass of coke and I'll come back and

1333
00:55:04,870 --> 00:55:02,089
interview you about the Aztec thing and

1334
00:55:07,630 --> 00:55:04,880
so you you know I did it's the one gig I

1335
00:55:09,010 --> 00:55:07,640
ever did where it was basically for the

1336
00:55:11,109 --> 00:55:09,020
money because I want I needed the money

1337
00:55:12,940 --> 00:55:11,119
to help finish this other film how's it

1338
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:12,950
turned out as I was going along I

1339
00:55:15,789 --> 00:55:13,970
thought well this okay this is

1340
00:55:17,260 --> 00:55:15,799
interesting which is kind of like the

1341
00:55:19,390 --> 00:55:17,270
guy in Dracula for

1342
00:55:20,770 --> 00:55:19,400
or one of those sequels who has maybe

1343
00:55:23,170 --> 00:55:20,780
you know he doesn't know as much as he

1344
00:55:26,020 --> 00:55:23,180
should and he shows up at count Al you

1345
00:55:27,790 --> 00:55:26,030
cards house and he doesn't realize that

1346
00:55:29,770 --> 00:55:27,800
canal you card is actually Dracula

1347
00:55:31,930 --> 00:55:29,780
backwards so he walks in he opens up at

1348
00:55:33,490 --> 00:55:31,940
craft this is interesting some

1349
00:55:35,230 --> 00:55:33,500
dead skeleton with a stake driven

1350
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:35,240
through its heart well why don't I just

1351
00:55:40,510 --> 00:55:36,770
pull the stake out and see what happens

1352
00:55:43,240 --> 00:55:40,520
nothing bad you described Boris Karloff

1353
00:55:46,300 --> 00:55:43,250
in the film house a Frankenstein

1354
00:55:48,610 --> 00:55:46,310
where he plays the guy who's doing this

1355
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:48,620
fake carnival or something and he's

1356
00:55:53,770 --> 00:55:50,810
going to show the genuine skeleton of

1357
00:55:55,450 --> 00:55:53,780
Count Dracula and of course he pulls the

1358
00:55:57,940 --> 00:55:55,460
stake out and there's John Carradine

1359
00:56:00,010 --> 00:55:57,950
yeah you know it's it's the thing you

1360
00:56:01,210 --> 00:56:00,020
learn you make mistakes it wasn't a

1361
00:56:03,220 --> 00:56:01,220
mistake for me to make the film I

1362
00:56:05,170 --> 00:56:03,230
actually liked the film because it gives

1363
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:05,180
Karl flock I like watching Karl is a

1364
00:56:09,130 --> 00:56:06,530
good friend of mine so anytime I can

1365
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:09,140
watch Karl who's passed away it's it's

1366
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:12,050
nice but Karl basically deconstructs the

1367
00:56:17,140 --> 00:56:14,810
Aztec case and and shows why it was a

1368
00:56:20,140 --> 00:56:17,150
hoax around that you have Stan and Scott

1369
00:56:22,150 --> 00:56:20,150
Ramsay arguing for why it's not I would

1370
00:56:23,650 --> 00:56:22,160
say you can ignore that part but at the

1371
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:23,660
end there's also a mention of the

1372
00:56:29,140 --> 00:56:26,330
Farmington Armada which is Karl pointed

1373
00:56:31,570 --> 00:56:29,150
out there was a bonafide II genuine very

1374
00:56:33,670 --> 00:56:31,580
interesting UFO case in the Aztec area

1375
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:33,680
Farmington's about ten miles away from

1376
00:56:36,310 --> 00:56:36,050
nineteen fifty almost nobody remembers

1377
00:56:38,620 --> 00:56:36,320
that

1378
00:56:41,110 --> 00:56:38,630
but somehow Aztec has creeped back

1379
00:56:43,150 --> 00:56:41,120
appear hoax has creeped back into the

1380
00:56:44,740 --> 00:56:43,160
public consciousness which is kind of a

1381
00:56:46,510 --> 00:56:44,750
there's your answer for what's wrong

1382
00:56:48,670 --> 00:56:46,520
with UFO research again because

1383
00:56:51,100 --> 00:56:48,680
something flying over your your head

1384
00:56:54,100 --> 00:56:51,110
that you can't explain is not as sexy as

1385
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:54,110
crash alien spacecraft with bodies and a

1386
00:56:58,510 --> 00:56:56,210
government cover-up I don't see what I

1387
00:57:00,250 --> 00:56:58,520
would then consider this part of

1388
00:57:02,710 --> 00:57:00,260
Blowfish is questioned about the best

1389
00:57:05,620 --> 00:57:02,720
worst UFO cases would you regard that

1390
00:57:08,110 --> 00:57:05,630
Paul as among the worst Aztec I don't

1391
00:57:10,780 --> 00:57:08,120
even regard that as a UFO case so I

1392
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:10,790
regard that as one of the best hoaxes

1393
00:57:14,410 --> 00:57:13,130
you had a best-selling book by Frank

1394
00:57:16,750 --> 00:57:14,420
Scully you've made a fair bit of money

1395
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:16,760
off it I'm sure you have a really cool

1396
00:57:21,610 --> 00:57:19,130
story about these guys pulling this oil

1397
00:57:23,740 --> 00:57:21,620
scam and Colorado back in the end the

1398
00:57:25,900 --> 00:57:23,750
day and using UFOs oh my god I just said

1399
00:57:27,910 --> 00:57:25,910
back in the day Wow

1400
00:57:30,010 --> 00:57:27,920
I swear I'd never do that so anyway back

1401
00:57:30,950 --> 00:57:30,020
in you know the 1940s and early fifties

1402
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:30,960
it's a

1403
00:57:34,730 --> 00:57:32,730
nating story and even the intelligence

1404
00:57:36,710 --> 00:57:34,740
agencies the FBI got involved to an

1405
00:57:39,140 --> 00:57:36,720
extent so it's a cool story but it's a

1406
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:39,150
lousy UFO case you know the worst UFO

1407
00:57:44,329 --> 00:57:42,210
case there is no worse UFO case and

1408
00:57:45,980 --> 00:57:44,339
either remain unsolved assuming that

1409
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:45,990
they're actually unidentified are

1410
00:57:50,420 --> 00:57:48,330
interesting in one way shape or another

1411
00:57:53,599 --> 00:57:50,430
so I don't actually have a worst one I

1412
00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:53,609
guess Greg Bishop do you have a worst or

1413
00:57:57,530 --> 00:57:55,770
a most dissapointing UFO case to offer

1414
00:57:59,359 --> 00:57:57,540
you know I was thinking about that when

1415
00:58:01,490 --> 00:57:59,369
Paul was talking I think the worst UFO

1416
00:58:03,740 --> 00:58:01,500
case is Roswell because there's no

1417
00:58:05,930 --> 00:58:03,750
solution to it there never will be a

1418
00:58:08,210 --> 00:58:05,940
solution to it and people keep arguing

1419
00:58:13,370 --> 00:58:08,220
about it and wasting time energy money

1420
00:58:16,250 --> 00:58:13,380
and breath on it that's you know sad

1421
00:58:18,500 --> 00:58:16,260
horse yeah just just because of the time

1422
00:58:21,020 --> 00:58:18,510
it's taken away from anything useful and

1423
00:58:24,410 --> 00:58:21,030
how many people put all kinds of effort

1424
00:58:26,599 --> 00:58:24,420
into it and how unsolvable it is and how

1425
00:58:29,630 --> 00:58:26,609
unprovable it is to most people I mean a

1426
00:58:33,109 --> 00:58:29,640
lot of UFO enthusiasts researchers and

1427
00:58:35,329 --> 00:58:33,119
all that think it's an icon on UFO case

1428
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:35,339
at least crashed UFO case as for best

1429
00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:37,290
cases I sort of agree with Paul I've got

1430
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:40,050
favourite cases I know about best cases

1431
00:58:44,599 --> 00:58:42,330
maybe the stuff in in Paul's film

1432
00:58:46,700 --> 00:58:44,609
obviously the best evidence but I've got

1433
00:58:50,329 --> 00:58:46,710
favourite cases like Stan Gordon's case

1434
00:58:52,460 --> 00:58:50,339
from 1967 where the guy saw two people

1435
00:58:54,950 --> 00:58:52,470
saw a bunch of UFOs or I think two UFOs

1436
00:58:58,040 --> 00:58:54,960
and then two Bigfoot's walking off shows

1437
00:58:59,839 --> 00:58:58,050
yeah yeah holding glowing orbs I think

1438
00:59:02,450 --> 00:58:59,849
they disappear and then the guy goes

1439
00:59:04,070 --> 00:59:02,460
crazy and starts spouting something

1440
00:59:06,470 --> 00:59:04,080
about the end of the world and how man

1441
00:59:08,930 --> 00:59:06,480
has to it was it's an incredible case

1442
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:08,940
with all the weirdness that UFO he you

1443
00:59:12,859 --> 00:59:10,410
know researchers usually don't want

1444
00:59:14,900 --> 00:59:12,869
associated with UFO cases but is very

1445
00:59:17,990 --> 00:59:14,910
important I think to me this weird stuff

1446
00:59:19,730 --> 00:59:18,000
these outliers come up again and again

1447
00:59:21,260 --> 00:59:19,740
in their I think they're very important

1448
00:59:25,220 --> 00:59:21,270
to the UFO question and are routinely

1449
00:59:27,950 --> 00:59:25,230
ignored Chris oh I've got a bunch one of

1450
00:59:32,570 --> 00:59:27,960
my all-time favorites is the Clearview

1451
00:59:35,450 --> 00:59:32,580
case from 78 I believe or 79 where you

1452
00:59:37,099 --> 00:59:35,460
have inside of the Air Force Academy you

1453
00:59:39,940 --> 00:59:37,109
have Air Force officers arriving in

1454
00:59:43,339 --> 00:59:39,950
supposedly in a saucer type craft and

1455
00:59:45,290 --> 00:59:43,349
confronting a ranching family and having

1456
00:59:47,540 --> 00:59:45,300
a Bigfoot standing nearby with a

1457
00:59:49,490 --> 00:59:47,550
blinking box that was apparently under

1458
00:59:52,210 --> 00:59:49,500
the control of the air force officers

1459
00:59:55,490 --> 00:59:52,220
you have physical evidence Bigfoot hair

1460
00:59:57,230 --> 00:59:55,500
you have cattle mutilations you have the

1461
00:59:59,480 --> 00:59:57,240
types of attendant phenomenon that Greg

1462
01:00:01,130 --> 00:59:59,490
was mentioning also another case which I

1463
01:00:03,170 --> 01:00:01,140
personally investigated was the NORAD

1464
01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:03,180
phone call to the Rio Grande County

1465
01:00:11,329 --> 01:00:07,410
Sheriff in January of 95 where they

1466
01:00:13,130 --> 01:00:11,339
called to report a a significant few

1467
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:13,140
acre-sized heat bloom on the side of a

1468
01:00:17,870 --> 01:00:16,050
mountain in the San Luis Valley and the

1469
01:00:21,620 --> 01:00:17,880
events that surrounded that include

1470
01:00:23,900 --> 01:00:21,630
Bigfoot sightings low-flying b-52s it's

1471
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:23,910
the bait and switch coordinates by NORAD

1472
01:00:28,839 --> 01:00:25,770
to the sheriff and search and rescue

1473
01:00:31,609 --> 01:00:28,849
personnel and then just dozens of

1474
01:00:33,079 --> 01:00:31,619
attendant you know sighting reports

1475
01:00:37,099 --> 01:00:33,089
around the same time I think it was a

1476
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:37,109
dark-horse UFO sighting of 95 or the

1477
01:00:42,140 --> 01:00:39,930
case of 95 so terms of worst I would

1478
01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:42,150
have to agree with Greg Roswell I mean

1479
01:00:46,370 --> 01:00:44,130
what can you say it's just I think that

1480
01:00:48,470 --> 01:00:46,380
too much time has been spent on Roswell

1481
01:00:51,530 --> 01:00:48,480
there's not enough time on breaking

1482
01:00:53,329 --> 01:00:51,540
cases moving the field forward you can

1483
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:53,339
dig and dig and dig and the more you dig

1484
01:00:57,560 --> 01:00:54,890
the more dirt you're gonna uncover but

1485
01:01:01,040 --> 01:00:57,570
it's at some point let's get the stake

1486
01:01:03,710 --> 01:01:01,050
firmly planted in Roswell please you

1487
01:01:06,230 --> 01:01:03,720
know the problem I also see guys is that

1488
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:06,240
we keep resurrecting the old cases you

1489
01:01:10,460 --> 01:01:08,730
know we go back we don't bring up newer

1490
01:01:12,859 --> 01:01:10,470
cases I mean obviously there were UFO

1491
01:01:15,170 --> 01:01:12,869
sightings after Roswell but we have to

1492
01:01:17,450 --> 01:01:15,180
find ourselves stuck with Roswell in a

1493
01:01:20,210 --> 01:01:17,460
rut maybe you know it's a little bit of

1494
01:01:24,140 --> 01:01:20,220
intellectual laziness as it were that we

1495
01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:24,150
take an old case and we simply beat it

1496
01:01:28,339 --> 01:01:26,250
to death and then somebody else takes

1497
01:01:30,890 --> 01:01:28,349
the case and son it's like the movie you

1498
01:01:32,900 --> 01:01:30,900
know the movie where you have sequels

1499
01:01:35,900 --> 01:01:32,910
and sequels and eventually the sequels

1500
01:01:37,730 --> 01:01:35,910
die out because you run out of ideas

1501
01:01:39,829 --> 01:01:37,740
you know like for a while Star Trek ran

1502
01:01:42,620 --> 01:01:39,839
out of ideas until they rebooted the

1503
01:01:45,020 --> 01:01:42,630
franchise so you take Roswell and you've

1504
01:01:49,660 --> 01:01:45,030
got Roswell Roswell to Roswell three

1505
01:01:52,730 --> 01:01:49,670
Roswell 496 and you think after Roswell

1506
01:01:53,430 --> 01:01:52,740
496 and three-tenths you know what

1507
01:01:55,530 --> 01:01:53,440
you've run

1508
01:01:58,530 --> 01:01:55,540
something here you know if you do find

1509
01:02:00,630 --> 01:01:58,540
some physical solid evidence of Roswell

1510
01:02:03,420 --> 01:02:00,640
fine but right now it's people

1511
01:02:04,829 --> 01:02:03,430
remembering things remember and we're

1512
01:02:07,890 --> 01:02:04,839
not gonna say they're lying but

1513
01:02:11,490 --> 01:02:07,900
remembering what has happened 30 40 50

1514
01:02:14,099 --> 01:02:11,500
60 years ago the world has changed their

1515
01:02:16,380 --> 01:02:14,109
experiences have changed and you have

1516
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:16,390
the core question can you even after all

1517
01:02:21,599 --> 01:02:18,970
that cultural conditioning all that

1518
01:02:24,900 --> 01:02:21,609
contamination over the years remember

1519
01:02:26,819 --> 01:02:24,910
anything that old accurately I mean we

1520
01:02:28,890 --> 01:02:26,829
argue about what happened yesterday

1521
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:28,900
you have the Talking Heads on cable TV

1522
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:30,010
they can't figure out what happened

1523
01:02:34,500 --> 01:02:31,930
yesterday how do we know what happened

1524
01:02:37,829 --> 01:02:34,510
that we can remember or hope to remember

1525
01:02:40,290 --> 01:02:37,839
50 or 60 years ago we have Paul Campbell

1526
01:02:43,230 --> 01:02:40,300
Greg Bishop our co-host is Chris O'Brien

1527
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1610
01:07:28,550 --> 01:07:25,070
that's the para cast comm or check us

1611
01:07:33,920 --> 01:07:31,310
we continue or in the second hour of our

1612
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:33,930
fifth anniversary episode answering your

1613
01:07:38,390 --> 01:07:36,450
questions the co-host is Chris O'Brien

1614
01:07:40,610 --> 01:07:38,400
we have Paul Campbell Greg Bishop

1615
01:07:42,890 --> 01:07:40,620
blowfish asked me some really great

1616
01:07:44,720 --> 01:07:42,900
questions here and as I said we're

1617
01:07:46,130 --> 01:07:44,730
covering some of them we can't cover all

1618
01:07:49,100 --> 01:07:46,140
of them but I'll give you example of

1619
01:07:51,170 --> 01:07:49,110
this blowfish asked me Jean what's your

1620
01:07:53,540 --> 01:07:51,180
thoughts about ufology since you first

1621
01:07:55,340 --> 01:07:53,550
became interested and what's your

1622
01:07:57,950 --> 01:07:55,350
thoughts on the future computer

1623
01:07:59,120 --> 01:07:57,960
developments oh okay I'm gonna be brief

1624
01:08:00,470 --> 01:07:59,130
about this because I really want our

1625
01:08:03,770 --> 01:08:00,480
guests to do most of the talking this

1626
01:08:07,040 --> 01:08:03,780
week first of all it's amazing to me how

1627
01:08:09,530 --> 01:08:07,050
we've gone nowhere the UFO field can be

1628
01:08:11,660 --> 01:08:09,540
described in terms of the common belief

1629
01:08:13,760 --> 01:08:11,670
by reading a book called flying saucers

1630
01:08:15,830 --> 01:08:13,770
from outer space by major Donald Kehoe

1631
01:08:19,970 --> 01:08:15,840
now in the public domain you can

1632
01:08:22,520 --> 01:08:19,980
download a copy from 1950 and many parts

1633
01:08:24,650 --> 01:08:22,530
of UFO research have not changed then is

1634
01:08:26,750 --> 01:08:24,660
a book by Kehoe Flying Saucer conspiracy

1635
01:08:29,030 --> 01:08:26,760
about the silence group the government

1636
01:08:31,099 --> 01:08:29,040
keeping it all a secret we still think

1637
01:08:31,820 --> 01:08:31,109
that we have disclosure we have EXO

1638
01:08:34,130 --> 01:08:31,830
politics

1639
01:08:37,280 --> 01:08:34,140
that hasn't changed what has changes

1640
01:08:39,320 --> 01:08:37,290
maybe a small number of UFO

1641
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:39,330
investigators who realize it's a whole

1642
01:08:43,550 --> 01:08:41,730
lot more complicated and they're trying

1643
01:08:47,090 --> 01:08:43,560
their level best to figure out other

1644
01:08:48,980 --> 01:08:47,100
possibilities I mean John keel alerted

1645
01:08:51,410 --> 01:08:48,990
us to other possibilities Jacque fillet

1646
01:08:54,289 --> 01:08:51,420
towards the end of his life dr. J Allen

1647
01:08:56,930 --> 01:08:54,299
Hynek I interviewed dr. Hynek maybe I

1648
01:08:59,599 --> 01:08:56,940
don't know a few years before he died of

1649
01:09:00,410 --> 01:08:59,609
a brain tumor very friendly guy we had I

1650
01:09:03,050 --> 01:09:00,420
think dinner

1651
01:09:05,390 --> 01:09:03,060
together I interviewed him and he had

1652
01:09:07,880 --> 01:09:05,400
that broad hint there's a lot more to

1653
01:09:09,770 --> 01:09:07,890
the UFO field than just aliens from Zeta

1654
01:09:12,500 --> 01:09:09,780
Reticuli coming to see us but the other

1655
01:09:13,730 --> 01:09:12,510
question for our panel because all of us

1656
01:09:18,710 --> 01:09:13,740
are involved in that one way or another

1657
01:09:21,710 --> 01:09:18,720
what is the best sci-fi movie and the

1658
01:09:24,020 --> 01:09:21,720
worst so Paul Campbell do you think plan

1659
01:09:26,090 --> 01:09:24,030
9 from outer space was the worst in

1660
01:09:27,620 --> 01:09:26,100
terms of production value probably I

1661
01:09:29,990 --> 01:09:27,630
mean you know it would be right out

1662
01:09:32,720 --> 01:09:30,000
there but as with Greg I don't know

1663
01:09:36,380 --> 01:09:32,730
about you and Chris I have an enduring

1664
01:09:39,140 --> 01:09:36,390
fondness for Atwood and really bad

1665
01:09:41,899 --> 01:09:39,150
filmmaking because you know he's the

1666
01:09:45,050 --> 01:09:41,909
anti Orson Welles he had all

1667
01:09:48,349 --> 01:09:45,060
Orson Welles's Drive and hood spa and

1668
01:09:49,370 --> 01:09:48,359
ability to lie and get things done but

1669
01:09:51,289 --> 01:09:49,380
only to a point

1670
01:09:54,410 --> 01:09:51,299
he didn't have any of Welles as talent

1671
01:09:56,149 --> 01:09:54,420
so it's a yin and yang if a universe is

1672
01:09:57,830 --> 01:09:56,159
gonna have Orson Welles making Citizen

1673
01:10:00,410 --> 01:09:57,840
Kane then you should have an Ed Wood

1674
01:10:02,510 --> 01:10:00,420
making plan 9 from outer space and I

1675
01:10:04,820 --> 01:10:02,520
think then that somewhere somewhere on

1676
01:10:09,169 --> 01:10:04,830
that continuum between the two our most

1677
01:10:10,399 --> 01:10:09,179
other films so for me the best science

1678
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:10,409
fiction film and it's an interesting

1679
01:10:14,090 --> 01:10:12,810
quite a it's doing time the one macto

1680
01:10:16,220 --> 01:10:14,100
nice and I wrote that I hope to make

1681
01:10:17,780 --> 01:10:16,230
this year there you go travel again I'm

1682
01:10:20,600 --> 01:10:17,790
traveling into the future to tell you

1683
01:10:22,520 --> 01:10:20,610
what the best one is good okay so how

1684
01:10:25,430 --> 01:10:22,530
about Day the Earth Stood Still it is

1685
01:10:27,709 --> 01:10:25,440
such a classic in its own way what do

1686
01:10:30,830 --> 01:10:27,719
you think among the top five best films

1687
01:10:32,660 --> 01:10:30,840
anyway I did it top 10 sci-fi films of

1688
01:10:37,640 --> 01:10:32,670
all time I think on my blog several

1689
01:10:39,709 --> 01:10:37,650
years ago and to me Blade Runner Solaris

1690
01:10:42,410 --> 01:10:39,719
the Russian version although I kind of

1691
01:10:46,129 --> 01:10:42,420
liked the George Clooney version to 2001

1692
01:10:48,830 --> 01:10:46,139
a Space Odyssey any film where you are

1693
01:10:51,260 --> 01:10:48,840
what science fiction should do frankly

1694
01:10:53,959 --> 01:10:51,270
what UFO research should do is question

1695
01:10:55,610 --> 01:10:53,969
whether there's some other intelligence

1696
01:10:58,490 --> 01:10:55,620
out there that interacts with us and

1697
01:11:00,740 --> 01:10:58,500
also question ourselves who you know who

1698
01:11:02,390 --> 01:11:00,750
are we what are we doing here what's it

1699
01:11:04,300 --> 01:11:02,400
all about and so I think the best

1700
01:11:06,979 --> 01:11:04,310
science fiction films are the ones that

1701
01:11:09,680 --> 01:11:06,989
do that and I think those three that

1702
01:11:12,379 --> 01:11:09,690
I've just named do it you know plus I

1703
01:11:13,910 --> 01:11:12,389
like Terminator 2 and I like aliens so

1704
01:11:16,399 --> 01:11:13,920
sometimes you know just a good shoot I'm

1705
01:11:18,229 --> 01:11:16,409
up in outer space is fun as well if I if

1706
01:11:19,640 --> 01:11:18,239
I could only ever watch one if somebody

1707
01:11:21,830 --> 01:11:19,650
said you can only ever watch one science

1708
01:11:24,919 --> 01:11:21,840
fiction film ever again I would say

1709
01:11:27,020 --> 01:11:24,929
Blade Runner is the one that I just keep

1710
01:11:29,510 --> 01:11:27,030
coming back to and I go I look at it and

1711
01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:29,520
it was visionary Ridley Scott was so far

1712
01:11:34,250 --> 01:11:31,530
ahead of the ball in terms of imagining

1713
01:11:36,110 --> 01:11:34,260
a new future a lot of what what he was

1714
01:11:38,510 --> 01:11:36,120
talking about has come true and I think

1715
01:11:41,030 --> 01:11:38,520
the stuff that hasn't come true may well

1716
01:11:44,149 --> 01:11:41,040
come true the next 3040 years I'm glad

1717
01:11:44,689 --> 01:11:44,159
jazz island Green never came true that

1718
01:11:46,610 --> 01:11:44,699
we know of

1719
01:11:49,040 --> 01:11:46,620
well first now that was a Charlton

1720
01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:49,050
Heston film one of over G Robinson's

1721
01:11:54,439 --> 01:11:50,850
last film that's right he promised his

1722
01:11:54,830 --> 01:11:54,449
last film his final words were Soylent

1723
01:11:58,339 --> 01:11:54,840
Green

1724
01:12:00,800 --> 01:11:58,349
is people yeah when was the last time

1725
01:12:02,390 --> 01:12:00,810
you had a cheeseburger McDonald's okay

1726
01:12:03,890 --> 01:12:02,400
now we worry about what's in it Greg

1727
01:12:05,780 --> 01:12:03,900
Bishop what do you think best and worst

1728
01:12:07,729 --> 01:12:05,790
science fiction films well are you

1729
01:12:09,379 --> 01:12:07,739
talking about that addressed the UFOs

1730
01:12:11,899 --> 01:12:09,389
subject are just science fiction in

1731
01:12:12,320 --> 01:12:11,909
general the question is open-ended go

1732
01:12:15,169 --> 01:12:12,330
either way

1733
01:12:16,850 --> 01:12:15,179
open-ended I would include what Paul was

1734
01:12:19,280 --> 01:12:16,860
talking about I would also include

1735
01:12:21,320 --> 01:12:19,290
Clockwork Orange there's Kubrick again I

1736
01:12:24,890 --> 01:12:21,330
would include the thing the original

1737
01:12:27,080 --> 01:12:24,900
thing from night the 50s and remember by

1738
01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:27,090
the way the thing was portrayed by

1739
01:12:33,649 --> 01:12:30,090
marshal Matt Dillon yes James Arness

1740
01:12:35,140 --> 01:12:33,659
yeah yeah Peter Graves brother for those

1741
01:12:38,240 --> 01:12:35,150
of you who remember Mission Impossible

1742
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:38,250
Planet of the Apes actually Brazil one

1743
01:12:42,140 --> 01:12:39,810
of my favorite films that's a science

1744
01:12:44,390 --> 01:12:42,150
fiction film there's there's so many of

1745
01:12:46,250 --> 01:12:44,400
them and and worst I don't know there's

1746
01:12:48,229 --> 01:12:46,260
so so many of them choose from an Ed

1747
01:12:49,550 --> 01:12:48,239
Wood is too obvious to me even though

1748
01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:49,560
he's a hero of mine and as you know I

1749
01:12:55,129 --> 01:12:53,010
open you open usually go with mrs. plan

1750
01:12:57,140 --> 01:12:55,139
9 from outer space the beginning of plan

1751
01:13:00,410 --> 01:12:57,150
9 from outer space just do one because

1752
01:13:02,270 --> 01:13:00,420
it's I love Ed Wood and the way he was

1753
01:13:03,709 --> 01:13:02,280
portrayed by Johnny Depp and and

1754
01:13:06,320 --> 01:13:03,719
directed by Tim Burton I thought was

1755
01:13:08,390 --> 01:13:06,330
perfect in in the Ed Wood movie but you

1756
01:13:11,120 --> 01:13:08,400
know what one because he's just so inept

1757
01:13:13,700 --> 01:13:11,130
but two because he just like Paul said

1758
01:13:16,399 --> 01:13:13,710
he had he had such Drive and he had such

1759
01:13:19,010 --> 01:13:16,409
dreams and really wanted badly to make

1760
01:13:22,220 --> 01:13:19,020
this you know all these epics and these

1761
01:13:24,410 --> 01:13:22,230
and this big splash and they in the the

1762
01:13:25,760 --> 01:13:24,420
film industry and he never did but the

1763
01:13:27,680 --> 01:13:25,770
thing is that you know think of how many

1764
01:13:29,060 --> 01:13:27,690
idiots you see walking around and say

1765
01:13:30,410 --> 01:13:29,070
they're going to do something and they

1766
01:13:32,689 --> 01:13:30,420
want to do something and they never do

1767
01:13:33,890 --> 01:13:32,699
anything there countless and here's that

1768
01:13:35,810 --> 01:13:33,900
would who probably made the worst

1769
01:13:37,609 --> 01:13:35,820
science fiction films ever made it

1770
01:13:39,140 --> 01:13:37,619
practically everybody in the civilized

1771
01:13:43,160 --> 01:13:39,150
world at least in the West knows about

1772
01:13:44,720 --> 01:13:43,170
it just because it's so bad just there's

1773
01:13:48,109 --> 01:13:44,730
lesser-known ones like beast of Yucca

1774
01:13:49,550 --> 01:13:48,119
Flats and you know oh there's so many

1775
01:13:53,359 --> 01:13:49,560
thousands of oh I love them all because

1776
01:13:55,700 --> 01:13:53,369
they're so inept and so ridiculous and

1777
01:13:57,109 --> 01:13:55,710
to me that just holds a mirror up to you

1778
01:13:59,839 --> 01:13:57,119
know everything that people think is

1779
01:14:01,280 --> 01:13:59,849
good and right and perfect and proper

1780
01:14:03,439 --> 01:14:01,290
and all that and shows how how

1781
01:14:04,550 --> 01:14:03,449
ridiculous silly and even creative

1782
01:14:06,439 --> 01:14:04,560
people can be and I think that's

1783
01:14:08,600 --> 01:14:06,449
wonderful series I mentioned

1784
01:14:10,760 --> 01:14:08,610
de Vere Stood Still is because it has

1785
01:14:13,490 --> 01:14:10,770
as implications for the UFO field the

1786
01:14:15,890 --> 01:14:13,500
original one now amongst the worst films

1787
01:14:18,520 --> 01:14:15,900
was the remake with Keanu Reeves the

1788
01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:18,530
original one you have to think the

1789
01:14:22,729 --> 01:14:20,730
picture of the spaceship taking off at

1790
01:14:25,640 --> 01:14:22,739
the end it was used by the late Howard

1791
01:14:28,459 --> 01:14:25,650
manager as photographs of UFO some of

1792
01:14:32,120 --> 01:14:28,469
his contact claims remember that also

1793
01:14:35,359 --> 01:14:32,130
the scene where Michael Rennie is Klaatu

1794
01:14:38,120 --> 01:14:35,369
is shot down near Dupont Circle in

1795
01:14:39,800 --> 01:14:38,130
Washington DC and the reason we

1796
01:14:41,810 --> 01:14:39,810
mentioned that is not far from that

1797
01:14:44,390 --> 01:14:41,820
location as depicted in the film is

1798
01:14:46,820 --> 01:14:44,400
where nightcap the legendary UFO

1799
01:14:47,899 --> 01:14:46,830
organization located their headquarters

1800
01:14:50,149 --> 01:14:47,909
that's a fact

1801
01:14:51,979 --> 01:14:50,159
well there's inside jokes I also like

1802
01:14:54,560 --> 01:14:51,989
the film because it came out at a time

1803
01:14:57,530 --> 01:14:54,570
where science fiction was always the

1804
01:14:59,930 --> 01:14:57,540
alien on the loose gonna attack and kill

1805
01:15:02,149 --> 01:14:59,940
earthlings here it was trying to have a

1806
01:15:05,870 --> 01:15:02,159
positive message which is you know if

1807
01:15:07,729 --> 01:15:05,880
you're gonna be warlike we're gonna take

1808
01:15:10,490 --> 01:15:07,739
things into our own hands but a few

1809
01:15:12,320 --> 01:15:10,500
Earthlings will just pursue the straight

1810
01:15:15,439 --> 01:15:12,330
and the narrow and get your acts

1811
01:15:17,990 --> 01:15:15,449
together you can join the Federation the

1812
01:15:19,939 --> 01:15:18,000
galactic brotherhood and they chose I

1813
01:15:21,320 --> 01:15:19,949
think the best actor for Klaatu Michael

1814
01:15:22,310 --> 01:15:21,330
Rennie because nobody heard of him in

1815
01:15:24,530 --> 01:15:22,320
this country he was well known in

1816
01:15:26,330 --> 01:15:24,540
England but nobody heard of him here it

1817
01:15:30,439 --> 01:15:26,340
was also directed by Robert Weiss who

1818
01:15:32,720 --> 01:15:30,449
did sound of music and was a UFO

1819
01:15:35,390 --> 01:15:32,730
believer think of all the UFO

1820
01:15:37,879 --> 01:15:35,400
implications of the movie The Day the

1821
01:15:40,189 --> 01:15:37,889
Earth Stood Still our guest Paul Kimbo

1822
01:15:42,919 --> 01:15:40,199
Greg Bishop the co-host is Chris O'Brien

1823
01:15:46,320 --> 01:15:42,929
I'm gene Steinberg you're in the Barrie

1824
01:15:52,879 --> 01:15:49,479
[Music]

1825
01:15:55,580 --> 01:15:52,889
Ray Perkins a reclusive veteran burned

1826
01:15:57,879 --> 01:15:55,590
out from the Gulf War lives tortured by

1827
01:16:00,229 --> 01:15:57,889
relentless perplexing nightmares

1828
01:16:02,180 --> 01:16:00,239
nightmares of a horrific battle in deep

1829
01:16:04,430 --> 01:16:02,190
space and of a mysterious woman

1830
01:16:07,580 --> 01:16:04,440
suffering an agony for her devastated

1831
01:16:11,589 --> 01:16:07,590
world a woman not yet born calling

1832
01:16:14,239 --> 01:16:11,599
across centuries to him then a

1833
01:16:16,939 --> 01:16:14,249
coincidence leads him to his destiny his

1834
01:16:19,729 --> 01:16:16,949
chance to alter of the universe attack

1835
01:16:21,950 --> 01:16:19,739
of the rocket the former fiction editor

1836
01:16:24,259 --> 01:16:21,960
for Star Wars and Indiana Jones Robert

1837
01:16:26,120 --> 01:16:24,269
Simpson writes the soul of the novel

1838
01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:26,130
attack of the Rockaways lies in its

1839
01:16:29,540 --> 01:16:27,570
heart and passion for building a

1840
01:16:32,600 --> 01:16:29,550
convincing tale of a love that spans the

1841
01:16:35,479 --> 01:16:32,610
galaxy a thrilling storm attack of the

1842
01:16:37,279 --> 01:16:35,489
rocket is available now read a simple

1843
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1845
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is calm that's our Ock o IDs calm attack

1846
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of the rock a novel in the grand

1847
01:16:52,520 --> 01:16:51,210
science-fiction tradition forget

1848
01:16:54,620 --> 01:16:52,530
everything you've been told about

1849
01:16:56,540 --> 01:16:54,630
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1850
01:16:59,000 --> 01:16:56,550
happens you'll need the single most

1851
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1852
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1853
01:17:05,060 --> 01:17:04,440
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1854
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1855
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1856
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1857
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1858
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1859
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1860
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1861
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from newly germinated seeds and they are

1862
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1863
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1864
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1865
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1866
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1867
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1868
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1869
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America's number one source for

1926
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independent talk 3 meals for over a day

1927
01:20:03,210 --> 01:20:01,210
Jade we are the gcn Radio Network this

1928
01:20:06,060 --> 01:20:03,220
is Jim Mazz league editor or a sausage

1929
01:20:08,580 --> 01:20:06,070
smear and I'm here to say a good word or

1930
01:20:11,040 --> 01:20:08,590
two about the para cast which I believe

1931
01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:11,050
is the gold standard the paranormal

1932
01:20:29,370 --> 01:20:27,010
radio listen to it if you can we return

1933
01:20:31,560 --> 01:20:29,380
with co-host Chris O'Brien I'm gene

1934
01:20:34,290 --> 01:20:31,570
Steinberg you're in the para cast fifth

1935
01:20:36,030 --> 01:20:34,300
anniversary episode with Greg Bishop and

1936
01:20:38,310 --> 01:20:36,040
Paul Campbell Paul you were about to say

1937
01:20:40,140 --> 01:20:38,320
something before we went to the break I

1938
01:20:42,360 --> 01:20:40,150
guess partly in response to what Greg

1939
01:20:43,560 --> 01:20:42,370
said about the best and worst films yeah

1940
01:20:46,320 --> 01:20:43,570
it took me a little while because

1941
01:20:48,660 --> 01:20:46,330
generally speaking I don't focus on the

1942
01:20:50,880 --> 01:20:48,670
worst films I focus on the best films

1943
01:20:53,220 --> 01:20:50,890
the ones that I enjoy for me the worst

1944
01:20:55,440 --> 01:20:53,230
science fiction film ever was

1945
01:20:57,300 --> 01:20:55,450
Battlefield Earth for so many reasons

1946
01:20:59,070 --> 01:20:57,310
oh there you go that's all you nailed

1947
01:21:00,630 --> 01:20:59,080
that one oh it took a little while

1948
01:21:02,130 --> 01:21:00,640
because I've tried to block most of it

1949
01:21:04,110 --> 01:21:02,140
out but for so many reasons

1950
01:21:06,330 --> 01:21:04,120
and as Greg said there's Sony to choose

1951
01:21:07,860 --> 01:21:06,340
from but when you also throw in the fact

1952
01:21:10,230 --> 01:21:07,870
that that actually had millions of

1953
01:21:13,110 --> 01:21:10,240
dollars in the budget and some big-name

1954
01:21:15,270 --> 01:21:13,120
stars and still managed yeah it still

1955
01:21:17,250 --> 01:21:15,280
managed to be complete muttered rec so

1956
01:21:18,900 --> 01:21:17,260
on the plus side because I have to wash

1957
01:21:20,670 --> 01:21:18,910
that out of my mouth now just thinking

1958
01:21:23,580 --> 01:21:20,680
about that I would add Forbidden Planet

1959
01:21:25,530 --> 01:21:23,590
which is one of the favorites folks if

1960
01:21:27,150 --> 01:21:25,540
most people haven't seen it because it

1961
01:21:28,950 --> 01:21:27,160
kind of came and went but there was a

1962
01:21:31,080 --> 01:21:28,960
great little film out last year called

1963
01:21:33,690 --> 01:21:31,090
never let me go with Carey Mulligan

1964
01:21:35,130 --> 01:21:33,700
Keira Knightley said the United Kingdom

1965
01:21:37,980 --> 01:21:35,140
in a very near future kind of an

1966
01:21:40,260 --> 01:21:37,990
alternate dystopian world and it raised

1967
01:21:42,060 --> 01:21:40,270
some very interesting questions about

1968
01:21:44,940 --> 01:21:42,070
what might be coming for us in terms of

1969
01:21:47,700 --> 01:21:44,950
cloning in terms of how we might treat

1970
01:21:49,830 --> 01:21:47,710
artificial life forms and so yeah never

1971
01:21:51,570 --> 01:21:49,840
let me go if you find it on video track

1972
01:21:53,400 --> 01:21:51,580
it down it was released last year and

1973
01:21:56,430 --> 01:21:53,410
almost nobody saw it but it's actually

1974
01:21:58,230 --> 01:21:56,440
really good Chris like Paul I am I tend

1975
01:22:00,660 --> 01:21:58,240
to go with you know the best directors

1976
01:22:03,900 --> 01:22:00,670
in Ridley Scott Stanley Kubrick Steven

1977
01:22:05,449 --> 01:22:03,910
Spielberg Howard Hawks sci-fi movies in

1978
01:22:08,779 --> 01:22:05,459
films by these gentlemen

1979
01:22:10,609 --> 01:22:08,789
or my favorite which would be 2001 for

1980
01:22:13,009 --> 01:22:10,619
instance agree with Greg Clockwork

1981
01:22:15,080 --> 01:22:13,019
Orange is probably arguably my favorite

1982
01:22:17,179 --> 01:22:15,090
film Blade Runner exceptional douglas

1983
01:22:19,160 --> 01:22:17,189
trumbull x' effects in that or just

1984
01:22:22,129 --> 01:22:19,170
mesmerizing i think of a groundbreaking

1985
01:22:23,929 --> 01:22:22,139
film the thing howard hawks for you film

1986
01:22:25,969 --> 01:22:23,939
buffs out there it's considered the

1987
01:22:29,029 --> 01:22:25,979
first film where the director actually

1988
01:22:30,979 --> 01:22:29,039
had the characters talk over one another

1989
01:22:33,620 --> 01:22:30,989
with the dialogue that's the first time

1990
01:22:35,779 --> 01:22:33,630
that that actually happened and now it's

1991
01:22:37,520 --> 01:22:35,789
it's commonplace in films for for a

1992
01:22:39,819 --> 01:22:37,530
dialogue to be more lifelike in that

1993
01:22:43,100 --> 01:22:39,829
that regard in terms of words like

1994
01:22:45,350 --> 01:22:43,110
Battlefield Earth I like sci-fi movies I

1995
01:22:46,609 --> 01:22:45,360
used to like them more than I do now but

1996
01:22:48,500 --> 01:22:46,619
that and that's one of the few that I

1997
01:22:51,049 --> 01:22:48,510
literally could not watch the whole

1998
01:22:54,919 --> 01:22:51,059
thing it was so bad and so I'd have to

1999
01:22:56,149 --> 01:22:54,929
agree with Paul on that one you know one

2000
01:22:57,649 --> 01:22:56,159
that people haven't talked about I think

2001
01:22:58,600 --> 01:22:57,659
Close Encounters should be up on that

2002
01:23:01,009 --> 01:22:58,610
list somewhere too

2003
01:23:04,520 --> 01:23:01,019
because we could see dr. J Allen Hynek

2004
01:23:06,830 --> 01:23:04,530
in my final scenes one film that has a

2005
01:23:08,600 --> 01:23:06,840
really good bearing on the UFO subject

2006
01:23:10,549 --> 01:23:08,610
and how people look at it and the

2007
01:23:12,500 --> 01:23:10,559
paranormal in general and you wouldn't

2008
01:23:14,750 --> 01:23:12,510
expect that really affects me as Eternal

2009
01:23:16,640 --> 01:23:14,760
Sunshine of the spotless mind I love

2010
01:23:18,529 --> 01:23:16,650
what that film did with subconscious and

2011
01:23:20,449 --> 01:23:18,539
what the dream a dream scape might look

2012
01:23:23,600 --> 01:23:20,459
like and I think that that that should

2013
01:23:25,609 --> 01:23:23,610
inform people that are interested in the

2014
01:23:27,709 --> 01:23:25,619
paranormal and UFOs and maybe some sort

2015
01:23:29,839 --> 01:23:27,719
of contact with some other consciousness

2016
01:23:31,969 --> 01:23:29,849
that make any sense to anybody do you

2017
01:23:34,489 --> 01:23:31,979
people all regard the franchise films

2018
01:23:37,189 --> 01:23:34,499
like Star Trek Star Wars etc as being

2019
01:23:39,709 --> 01:23:37,199
basically just junk food Paul a

2020
01:23:42,109 --> 01:23:39,719
filmmaker I love them on my Facebook

2021
01:23:44,509 --> 01:23:42,119
thing I had a status update that said

2022
01:23:46,219 --> 01:23:44,519
I'm such a geek I ran I was with an old

2023
01:23:48,410 --> 01:23:46,229
friend from the music industry's now in

2024
01:23:49,129 --> 01:23:48,420
the film industry had coffee haven't

2025
01:23:51,020 --> 01:23:49,139
seen him in years

2026
01:23:52,969 --> 01:23:51,030
and we basically instead of talking

2027
01:23:54,679 --> 01:23:52,979
about you know business or stuff we

2028
01:23:57,560 --> 01:23:54,689
spend about an hour deconstructing the

2029
01:23:59,719 --> 01:23:57,570
Star Wars prequels and we're sure you

2030
01:24:02,120 --> 01:23:59,729
know what where exactly did George Lucas

2031
01:24:04,399 --> 01:24:02,130
completely lose his mind probably the

2032
01:24:06,620 --> 01:24:04,409
first line in the film yeah you know

2033
01:24:08,060 --> 01:24:06,630
Trade Federation stuff I don't know but

2034
01:24:10,580 --> 01:24:08,070
it's one of those things where you

2035
01:24:12,709 --> 01:24:10,590
become so invested in the franchise I

2036
01:24:15,469 --> 01:24:12,719
think Star Wars is great science fiction

2037
01:24:17,629 --> 01:24:15,479
I think Star Trek is great science

2038
01:24:18,830 --> 01:24:17,639
fiction and just because they're done on

2039
01:24:21,140 --> 01:24:18,840
the Star Trek reboot

2040
01:24:22,609 --> 01:24:21,150
that they did just a year or two ago I

2041
01:24:25,070 --> 01:24:22,619
thought was fantastic

2042
01:24:28,040 --> 01:24:25,080
an entertaining compelling film with

2043
01:24:30,169 --> 01:24:28,050
with cool characters nasty you know

2044
01:24:32,120 --> 01:24:30,179
what's interesting to me is that's why

2045
01:24:35,120 --> 01:24:32,130
the few films were I just watched it and

2046
01:24:37,609 --> 01:24:35,130
smiled from beginning to end from the

2047
01:24:41,450 --> 01:24:37,619
very first scene and also watching how

2048
01:24:43,790 --> 01:24:41,460
they basically rebooted it with new

2049
01:24:46,040 --> 01:24:43,800
characters is sort of kinda resemble the

2050
01:24:48,109 --> 01:24:46,050
originals but had their own takes on it

2051
01:24:49,310 --> 01:24:48,119
and how they took two characters and

2052
01:24:51,830 --> 01:24:49,320
I'll be interested in seeing how that

2053
01:24:53,930 --> 01:24:51,840
goes what about the film Inception now

2054
01:24:56,270 --> 01:24:53,940
that's kind of a mind-blowing kind of

2055
01:24:58,220 --> 01:24:56,280
exercise we've got realities within

2056
01:25:02,629 --> 01:24:58,230
realities within realities that only

2057
01:25:04,910 --> 01:25:02,639
crawl that's sure it's the same kind of

2058
01:25:06,890 --> 01:25:04,920
thing it it forces people to think in a

2059
01:25:08,419 --> 01:25:06,900
different way Tarantino did this I'm

2060
01:25:10,250 --> 01:25:08,429
although other people did that did it

2061
01:25:12,260 --> 01:25:10,260
before in different ways with Pulp

2062
01:25:14,209 --> 01:25:12,270
Fiction but forcing people to look at

2063
01:25:15,950 --> 01:25:14,219
reality and the way they experience it

2064
01:25:17,689 --> 01:25:15,960
in different ways and that's a really

2065
01:25:19,430 --> 01:25:17,699
valuable thing that film does and

2066
01:25:21,379 --> 01:25:19,440
Inception did that and I'm glad it was

2067
01:25:23,689 --> 01:25:21,389
popular and glad that it did what it did

2068
01:25:25,910 --> 01:25:23,699
but any film like that that that does

2069
01:25:28,430 --> 01:25:25,920
that treats that subject well what

2070
01:25:30,500 --> 01:25:28,440
thought processes are what you see in

2071
01:25:32,419 --> 01:25:30,510
your mind how important is that as

2072
01:25:34,459 --> 01:25:32,429
compared to quote-unquote making reality

2073
01:25:35,390 --> 01:25:34,469
these are important issues and the other

2074
01:25:36,919 --> 01:25:35,400
question I think the final

2075
01:25:38,899 --> 01:25:36,929
science-fiction question before we get

2076
01:25:43,430 --> 01:25:38,909
back to the power normal superhero

2077
01:25:45,530 --> 01:25:43,440
franchises okay can we do decent ones I

2078
01:25:47,959 --> 01:25:45,540
mean I guess the Batman films try to

2079
01:25:50,089 --> 01:25:47,969
treat the characters realistically we

2080
01:25:51,740 --> 01:25:50,099
now of course have a so many British

2081
01:25:55,899 --> 01:25:51,750
actors portraying Americans like

2082
01:25:58,939 --> 01:25:55,909
Christian Bale as Batman and of course

2083
01:26:00,260 --> 01:25:58,949
Commissioner Gordon is also British and

2084
01:26:02,419 --> 01:26:00,270
now we have a British actor playing

2085
01:26:04,370 --> 01:26:02,429
Superman but let me go to Chris before

2086
01:26:07,370 --> 01:26:04,380
we go to our filmmaker in residence here

2087
01:26:09,290 --> 01:26:07,380
so what about superheroes you like him

2088
01:26:12,620 --> 01:26:09,300
you hate him what Chris you know I've

2089
01:26:15,620 --> 01:26:12,630
never been a big superhero fan you know

2090
01:26:18,649 --> 01:26:15,630
and I think the spider-man films are

2091
01:26:20,300 --> 01:26:18,659
pretty good for instance of course the

2092
01:26:21,530 --> 01:26:20,310
Green Hornet I think is that out yet or

2093
01:26:24,109 --> 01:26:21,540
did it already die

2094
01:26:25,580 --> 01:26:24,119
it did mediocre but I think it's

2095
01:26:28,129 --> 01:26:25,590
probably gonna make money based on

2096
01:26:30,350 --> 01:26:28,139
what's doing worldwide the problem is

2097
01:26:32,330 --> 01:26:30,360
they try to make it into a comedy

2098
01:26:35,510 --> 01:26:32,340
you know think that the Green Hornet on

2099
01:26:37,190 --> 01:26:35,520
radio in the movies or early movies on

2100
01:26:39,020 --> 01:26:37,200
TV was meant to be straight ahead right

2101
01:26:40,370 --> 01:26:39,030
right and you'd have to think oh by the

2102
01:26:41,900 --> 01:26:40,380
way another piece of trivia the guy who

2103
01:26:44,780 --> 01:26:41,910
played the greenhorn on radio the late

2104
01:26:46,460 --> 01:26:44,790
al-hajj was Captain video on TV and in

2105
01:26:48,920 --> 01:26:46,470
the sixth season six sees reboot of

2106
01:26:50,990 --> 01:26:48,930
Green Hornet Bruce Lee Bruce Lee that's

2107
01:26:53,990 --> 01:26:51,000
where he got his start yeah yeah I've

2108
01:26:56,360 --> 01:26:54,000
just never really been to I was I didn't

2109
01:26:58,580 --> 01:26:56,370
really read comic books that much when I

2110
01:27:01,220 --> 01:26:58,590
was a kid my favorite was Toric's on a

2111
01:27:02,810 --> 01:27:01,230
stone which I believe was Adele comic

2112
01:27:04,040 --> 01:27:02,820
about two Indians that they end up in

2113
01:27:04,940 --> 01:27:04,050
the center of the earth battling

2114
01:27:07,460 --> 01:27:04,950
dinosaurs

2115
01:27:09,140 --> 01:27:07,470
sounds like a chorus Burroughs revisited

2116
01:27:10,790 --> 01:27:09,150
yeah exactly

2117
01:27:14,060 --> 01:27:10,800
I I would be interested to see a John

2118
01:27:16,700 --> 01:27:14,070
Carter of Mars film I'm on it yeah that

2119
01:27:18,350 --> 01:27:16,710
that's gonna be coming out and you know

2120
01:27:20,210 --> 01:27:18,360
I think this summer we're gonna have

2121
01:27:23,180 --> 01:27:20,220
some pretty interesting films coming out

2122
01:27:25,670 --> 01:27:23,190
we have super 8 Cowboys and Aliens which

2123
01:27:27,890 --> 01:27:25,680
looks like it could be fun I'm not sure

2124
01:27:29,600 --> 01:27:27,900
if anyone present has seen the battle

2125
01:27:32,240 --> 01:27:29,610
for LA or whether it's even out yet but

2126
01:27:34,190 --> 01:27:32,250
that looks pretty hokey another film

2127
01:27:36,380 --> 01:27:34,200
that I found recently they came out was

2128
01:27:39,080 --> 01:27:36,390
district 9 I thought that was actually

2129
01:27:42,320 --> 01:27:39,090
pretty interesting because it it totally

2130
01:27:45,230 --> 01:27:42,330
turned the genre upside down in terms of

2131
01:27:47,780 --> 01:27:45,240
the actual plot lines and the aliens put

2132
01:27:50,300 --> 01:27:47,790
in a like a Township and stuff I thought

2133
01:27:51,410 --> 01:27:50,310
it'd be kind of discrimination but the

2134
01:27:53,390 --> 01:27:51,420
thing is I wanted to get into the

2135
01:27:56,060 --> 01:27:53,400
superheroes and maybe we'll ask Greg

2136
01:27:56,210 --> 01:27:56,070
Bishop superhero films like him or hate

2137
01:27:59,270 --> 01:27:56,220
him

2138
01:28:01,550 --> 01:27:59,280
I don't feel either here's what I get in

2139
01:28:03,260 --> 01:28:01,560
trouble for I don't care I really have

2140
01:28:05,390 --> 01:28:03,270
never cared about superhero films when I

2141
01:28:08,150 --> 01:28:05,400
was in junior high and I said well

2142
01:28:10,100 --> 01:28:08,160
because it just doesn't it just it never

2143
01:28:11,600 --> 01:28:10,110
spoke to me the things that spoke to me

2144
01:28:14,660 --> 01:28:11,610
when I was in junior high in high school

2145
01:28:17,540 --> 01:28:14,670
or underground comics like freak

2146
01:28:18,680 --> 01:28:17,550
brotherz or or Vaughn godai if anybody

2147
01:28:21,620 --> 01:28:18,690
ever heard of him

2148
01:28:23,930 --> 01:28:21,630
in be yeah a zippy the pin at Jeff Jones

2149
01:28:26,630 --> 01:28:23,940
people that all these underground comics

2150
01:28:29,690 --> 01:28:26,640
artists is a 70's 80's 90's those those

2151
01:28:31,700 --> 01:28:29,700
kind of Love and Rockets all those those

2152
01:28:35,030 --> 01:28:31,710
things interested me not not DC

2153
01:28:38,480 --> 01:28:35,040
superhero although I did enjoy the first

2154
01:28:40,730 --> 01:28:38,490
and second iron man's eye I thought they

2155
01:28:42,590 --> 01:28:40,740
were fun fun filmmaking they're fun

2156
01:28:44,150 --> 01:28:42,600
right worth the money and you know that

2157
01:28:46,790 --> 01:28:44,160
maybe that's what his superheroes

2158
01:28:49,400 --> 01:28:46,800
to be kids apparently love Ironman right

2159
01:28:51,590 --> 01:28:49,410
now so I don't know why that is they're

2160
01:28:53,570 --> 01:28:51,600
just all in the Ironman so maybe there

2161
01:28:55,400 --> 01:28:53,580
maybe there's something there it's into

2162
01:28:57,200 --> 01:28:55,410
them on a more basic level but yeah

2163
01:28:59,090 --> 01:28:57,210
superhero films just and superheroes

2164
01:29:00,890 --> 01:28:59,100
just never really interested me well I

2165
01:29:02,360 --> 01:29:00,900
grew up with Superman and Batman so I

2166
01:29:04,790 --> 01:29:02,370
kind of liked the films I liked the

2167
01:29:06,440 --> 01:29:04,800
first Tim Burton Batman the second one

2168
01:29:07,910 --> 01:29:06,450
got a little too grisly the rest were

2169
01:29:10,940 --> 01:29:07,920
just garbage the Christopher Nolan

2170
01:29:13,100 --> 01:29:10,950
reboot I liked I liked the Richard

2171
01:29:15,410 --> 01:29:13,110
Donner Superman film the one that

2172
01:29:18,040 --> 01:29:15,420
Christopher Reeve although it got a

2173
01:29:21,410 --> 01:29:18,050
little campy you know the characters of

2174
01:29:24,710 --> 01:29:21,420
Lex Luthor as gene Hackman playing him

2175
01:29:27,350 --> 01:29:24,720
and his cohorts Ned Beatty yeah now Ned

2176
01:29:29,570 --> 01:29:27,360
is a terrific actor he was in a network

2177
01:29:31,310 --> 01:29:29,580
he's a great actor and he's still alive

2178
01:29:32,930 --> 01:29:31,320
and still a great actor I thought that

2179
01:29:34,670 --> 01:29:32,940
that was a part that upset me a few

2180
01:29:36,680 --> 01:29:34,680
other things too about continuity but

2181
01:29:38,720 --> 01:29:36,690
Paul understands that better we're

2182
01:29:40,730 --> 01:29:38,730
talking to Paul Kimbo Greg Bishop the

2183
01:29:45,860 --> 01:29:40,740
co-host is Chris O'Brien I'm gene

2184
01:29:45,870 --> 01:29:49,460
[Music]

2185
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don't complain about your cable bill

2186
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going up and up and up do something

2187
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grab a pencil and jot down this special

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cable TV rates go up the better digital

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more call 27 seven eight zero for my TV

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2255
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stockbrokers investment advisors won't

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2282
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searching for great talk radio helping

2283
01:34:07,050 --> 01:33:55,720
you more important search

2284
01:34:10,340 --> 01:34:07,060
we are the GCM radio network this is

2285
01:34:17,430 --> 01:34:10,350
actually you're listening to the podcast

2286
01:34:19,680 --> 01:34:17,440
the gold standard of paranormal radio we

2287
01:34:22,050 --> 01:34:19,690
returned with Chris O'Brien the co-hosts

2288
01:34:24,210 --> 01:34:22,060
our guests Paul Kimball former co-host

2289
01:34:26,310 --> 01:34:24,220
and still friend of the show and still

2290
01:34:29,520 --> 01:34:26,320
my friend I hope Greg Bishop guest

2291
01:34:31,890 --> 01:34:29,530
co-host now talking about superheroes

2292
01:34:34,230 --> 01:34:31,900
Paul Kimball what's your say before we

2293
01:34:36,630 --> 01:34:34,240
get back to the paranormal huge fan when

2294
01:34:38,460 --> 01:34:36,640
I was in law school in sitting taking

2295
01:34:40,020 --> 01:34:38,470
criminal law classes I used to describe

2296
01:34:43,050 --> 01:34:40,030
at man comics on my Criminal Law

2297
01:34:44,760 --> 01:34:43,060
textbooks so what do they say when they

2298
01:34:46,710 --> 01:34:44,770
caught you oh well they never caught me

2299
01:34:48,180 --> 01:34:46,720
you the nice thing about law school is

2300
01:34:50,340 --> 01:34:48,190
it's not like high school the

2301
01:34:51,720 --> 01:34:50,350
professor's don't come around checking

2302
01:34:53,670 --> 01:34:51,730
to make sure you're sitting there paying

2303
01:34:55,380 --> 01:34:53,680
attention you know you either are you

2304
01:34:57,330 --> 01:34:55,390
aren't and you'll find that on the final

2305
01:35:00,180 --> 01:34:57,340
exam whether somebody was or wasn't so

2306
01:35:02,940 --> 01:35:00,190
and for the money you're paying they

2307
01:35:05,430 --> 01:35:02,950
don't really care so you know my brother

2308
01:35:08,730 --> 01:35:05,440
and I easy Yankees fan I'm a Red Sox fan

2309
01:35:10,470 --> 01:35:08,740
he's a Superman fan I was a Batman guy

2310
01:35:13,890 --> 01:35:10,480
you know it was always that kind of

2311
01:35:16,560 --> 01:35:13,900
thing I think every generation needs its

2312
01:35:18,600 --> 01:35:16,570
myths whether they're the Greek gods or

2313
01:35:21,990 --> 01:35:18,610
whether it's Robin Hood and Camelot or

2314
01:35:25,860 --> 01:35:22,000
whatever and I think the cultural impact

2315
01:35:27,870 --> 01:35:25,870
of in particular Superman and Batman to

2316
01:35:29,460 --> 01:35:27,880
a lesser extent and arguably he's become

2317
01:35:32,790 --> 01:35:29,470
more popular now because we live in a

2318
01:35:34,860 --> 01:35:32,800
more nihilistic society but the cultural

2319
01:35:38,370 --> 01:35:34,870
impact in the United States of Superman

2320
01:35:40,500 --> 01:35:38,380
as a defining myth as a character that

2321
01:35:42,270 --> 01:35:40,510
is larger than life I don't think can be

2322
01:35:44,400 --> 01:35:42,280
underestimated in the 20th century I

2323
01:35:49,280 --> 01:35:44,410
think he Superman is one of the great

2324
01:35:51,450 --> 01:35:49,290
creations in literature of all time and

2325
01:35:53,220 --> 01:35:51,460
because it speaks to so many different

2326
01:35:54,420 --> 01:35:53,230
things I think Batman is a great

2327
01:35:56,460 --> 01:35:54,430
creation too I think there are other

2328
01:35:58,890 --> 01:35:56,470
characters that are as well that all

2329
01:36:01,440 --> 01:35:58,900
have interesting things to say but those

2330
01:36:04,320 --> 01:36:01,450
two in particular have stood the test of

2331
01:36:06,540 --> 01:36:04,330
time which is amazing in and of itself I

2332
01:36:08,810 --> 01:36:06,550
have seen these characters were started

2333
01:36:10,580 --> 01:36:08,820
like the late 30s or around 19

2334
01:36:12,560 --> 01:36:10,590
forty-four Batman we're talking about

2335
01:36:15,530 --> 01:36:12,570
right characters have been here for over

2336
01:36:17,540 --> 01:36:15,540
70 years yeah and and they will be here

2337
01:36:19,670 --> 01:36:17,550
for much longer and they've gone through

2338
01:36:22,430 --> 01:36:19,680
constant reinterpretations everything

2339
01:36:24,560 --> 01:36:22,440
from the campy 60s Batman which seemed

2340
01:36:26,510 --> 01:36:24,570
to fit the zeitgeist of the time to now

2341
01:36:30,200 --> 01:36:26,520
the one that I prefer the much darker

2342
01:36:31,760 --> 01:36:30,210
Chris Nolan take on Batman you know and

2343
01:36:33,710 --> 01:36:31,770
the Tim Burton stuff was great for its

2344
01:36:35,990 --> 01:36:33,720
time which was the 80s when things were

2345
01:36:37,970 --> 01:36:36,000
a little happier and maybe a little more

2346
01:36:40,130 --> 01:36:37,980
cartoonish but also there was an element

2347
01:36:42,080 --> 01:36:40,140
of darkness there too so you know you

2348
01:36:43,900 --> 01:36:42,090
can you can write whatever your

2349
01:36:47,240 --> 01:36:43,910
generation thinks about itself on

2350
01:36:49,400 --> 01:36:47,250
superheroes and I think every society

2351
01:36:51,110 --> 01:36:49,410
should have them and I'm like Greg it's

2352
01:36:53,480 --> 01:36:51,120
one of the things Greg and I differ on I

2353
01:36:55,490 --> 01:36:53,490
have no interest in underground comics

2354
01:36:57,710 --> 01:36:55,500
never have probably never will I just

2355
01:37:00,230 --> 01:36:57,720
didn't get them but superheroes

2356
01:37:02,360 --> 01:37:00,240
yeah those those I have always and will

2357
01:37:03,980 --> 01:37:02,370
always find interesting and so it annoys

2358
01:37:05,900 --> 01:37:03,990
me when somebody like David Kelley comes

2359
01:37:07,040 --> 01:37:05,910
along and he's completely I don't even

2360
01:37:08,960 --> 01:37:07,050
really like Wonder Woman

2361
01:37:10,520 --> 01:37:08,970
but he's gonna completely ruin Wonder

2362
01:37:12,740 --> 01:37:10,530
Woman with this new television show he's

2363
01:37:14,840 --> 01:37:12,750
got coming up about her day you know

2364
01:37:17,510 --> 01:37:14,850
totally totally rooted but this summer

2365
01:37:18,860 --> 01:37:17,520
Green Green Lantern I'm a fan Thor I'm a

2366
01:37:21,290 --> 01:37:18,870
fan everything I know about Norse

2367
01:37:23,780 --> 01:37:21,300
mythology I learned from Thor comics I

2368
01:37:26,120 --> 01:37:23,790
was inspired Captain America the First

2369
01:37:28,010 --> 01:37:26,130
Avenger absolutely which you know could

2370
01:37:30,200 --> 01:37:28,020
be like Saving Private Ryan meets Batman

2371
01:37:32,180 --> 01:37:30,210
which would be really interesting I

2372
01:37:34,370 --> 01:37:32,190
think all of these every time a

2373
01:37:35,240 --> 01:37:34,380
superhero film comes out I go with high

2374
01:37:37,700 --> 01:37:35,250
expectations

2375
01:37:39,590 --> 01:37:37,710
I'm usually disappointed more often than

2376
01:37:42,830 --> 01:37:39,600
not but it's worth it to see a film like

2377
01:37:45,350 --> 01:37:42,840
The Dark Knight or the first Iron Man

2378
01:37:47,750 --> 01:37:45,360
film you get one that really is sort of

2379
01:37:50,780 --> 01:37:47,760
transcends even the genre that's fun and

2380
01:37:52,460 --> 01:37:50,790
I love absolutely like to be amazed

2381
01:37:54,440 --> 01:37:52,470
let's get back to our paranormal

2382
01:37:56,810 --> 01:37:54,450
universe here and I guess the big

2383
01:37:59,060 --> 01:37:56,820
question to ask here for each one of you

2384
01:38:00,530 --> 01:37:59,070
will start with Greg Bishop since the

2385
01:38:03,200 --> 01:38:00,540
time you first started getting

2386
01:38:05,630 --> 01:38:03,210
interested in paranormal stuff UFOs etc

2387
01:38:08,450 --> 01:38:05,640
how has your viewpoint of the entire

2388
01:38:10,790 --> 01:38:08,460
thing evolved well it started out just

2389
01:38:12,860 --> 01:38:10,800
like everybody else's except I was it

2390
01:38:15,320 --> 01:38:12,870
was just what I could first read I would

2391
01:38:17,210 --> 01:38:15,330
read all the UFO paranormal Bigfoot

2392
01:38:20,330 --> 01:38:17,220
ghost books that I could I mean

2393
01:38:22,610 --> 01:38:20,340
Loch Ness monster I read I read over and

2394
01:38:25,100 --> 01:38:22,620
no the the at least at that point the

2395
01:38:27,350 --> 01:38:25,110
70s and 80s which you get basically is

2396
01:38:29,840 --> 01:38:27,360
an idea that Bigfoot's a real a real

2397
01:38:31,910 --> 01:38:29,850
flesh-and-blood creature UFOs are

2398
01:38:35,090 --> 01:38:31,920
piloted by anime from other planets and

2399
01:38:39,020 --> 01:38:35,100
I stuck with that and probably up

2400
01:38:40,820 --> 01:38:39,030
through the about the mid-1990s when I

2401
01:38:42,710 --> 01:38:40,830
started to realize that I should take

2402
01:38:46,070 --> 01:38:42,720
other people like we've said valais and

2403
01:38:48,230 --> 01:38:46,080
Keele seriously I read Jim Brandon's

2404
01:38:48,800 --> 01:38:48,240
book rebirth of pan that really affected

2405
01:38:51,830 --> 01:38:48,810
me a lot

2406
01:38:54,070 --> 01:38:51,840
and any number of these alternative

2407
01:38:56,630 --> 01:38:54,080
theory books and then believe it or not

2408
01:38:58,190 --> 01:38:56,640
what's the name of that book the gods of

2409
01:39:00,140 --> 01:38:58,200
Eden I really enjoyed that

2410
01:39:02,410 --> 01:39:00,150
look not because I believed everything

2411
01:39:05,350 --> 01:39:02,420
in it or anything like that but at the

2412
01:39:10,040 --> 01:39:05,360
possibility that somebody could take the

2413
01:39:12,530 --> 01:39:10,050
UFO thing the UFO myths the UFO area

2414
01:39:14,570 --> 01:39:12,540
whatever you want to call it and apply a

2415
01:39:16,850 --> 01:39:14,580
different set of criteria to it and look

2416
01:39:18,530 --> 01:39:16,860
at in a different way that fascinated me

2417
01:39:20,210 --> 01:39:18,540
and made me realize that you can think

2418
01:39:21,950 --> 01:39:20,220
about it in any way that you want and

2419
01:39:24,770 --> 01:39:21,960
it's probably better that you do it that

2420
01:39:27,260 --> 01:39:24,780
way and now I'm to the point where I'm

2421
01:39:29,690 --> 01:39:27,270
very open-ended about it would ya and

2422
01:39:34,220 --> 01:39:29,700
for all the things they say about anti D

2423
01:39:36,500 --> 01:39:34,230
th it's still a viable theory just that

2424
01:39:39,320 --> 01:39:36,510
it hasn't been proven so as I get into

2425
01:39:40,730 --> 01:39:39,330
the late 1990s and up to now I realize

2426
01:39:43,070 --> 01:39:40,740
there's so many different ways to look

2427
01:39:44,870 --> 01:39:43,080
at the subject and that makes it

2428
01:39:49,790 --> 01:39:44,880
interesting to me these alternative

2429
01:39:53,120 --> 01:39:49,800
theories these he's bringing and some

2430
01:39:55,400 --> 01:39:53,130
you know something like theoretical

2431
01:39:58,130 --> 01:39:55,410
physics bringing in something like a

2432
01:40:00,560 --> 01:39:58,140
paranormal theory of of cryptozoology

2433
01:40:02,480 --> 01:40:00,570
where the animals aren't flesh-and-blood

2434
01:40:05,240 --> 01:40:02,490
these things are interesting and I don't

2435
01:40:07,820 --> 01:40:05,250
really care particularly which one is

2436
01:40:10,580 --> 01:40:07,830
true I'd like you know I'd like to find

2437
01:40:13,580 --> 01:40:10,590
out but I think once you start closing

2438
01:40:14,960 --> 01:40:13,590
shelf off to different ideas then you

2439
01:40:17,000 --> 01:40:14,970
you stop thinking you've stopped

2440
01:40:18,680 --> 01:40:17,010
evolving and you'll probably never learn

2441
01:40:20,570 --> 01:40:18,690
anything anymore and I'd like to keep

2442
01:40:22,400 --> 01:40:20,580
learning and that's why I try to keep an

2443
01:40:24,980 --> 01:40:22,410
open mind about things and I don't

2444
01:40:25,430 --> 01:40:24,990
really alight on any one theory or

2445
01:40:28,160 --> 01:40:25,440
another

2446
01:40:30,530 --> 01:40:28,170
I basically cheerlead for other ones so

2447
01:40:32,360 --> 01:40:30,540
that to try and push people to think

2448
01:40:33,920 --> 01:40:32,370
differently about it and and come back

2449
01:40:36,050 --> 01:40:33,930
and tell me something that and

2450
01:40:38,150 --> 01:40:36,060
help me learn something Chris hey Brian

2451
01:40:40,970 --> 01:40:38,160
how is your viewpoint about the

2452
01:40:45,080 --> 01:40:40,980
paranormal about UFOs etc how is that

2453
01:40:48,770 --> 01:40:45,090
evolved over the years well growing up I

2454
01:40:50,450 --> 01:40:48,780
think similar to Greg I don't have was

2455
01:40:52,580 --> 01:40:50,460
programmed by the culture I mean I saw

2456
01:40:56,570 --> 01:40:52,590
those great science-fiction movies from

2457
01:40:58,940 --> 01:40:56,580
the 50s and and I just assumed that we

2458
01:41:02,150 --> 01:40:58,950
were being visited by by flesh-and-blood

2459
01:41:04,430 --> 01:41:02,160
you know here in our universe reality

2460
01:41:06,770 --> 01:41:04,440
aliens that were coming here and and for

2461
01:41:08,540 --> 01:41:06,780
whatever reason interacting with humans

2462
01:41:11,210 --> 01:41:08,550
and and making their presence known to a

2463
01:41:13,670 --> 01:41:11,220
certain extent it wasn't until I started

2464
01:41:16,460 --> 01:41:13,680
going out personally into the field

2465
01:41:18,140 --> 01:41:16,470
having my own personal experiences as

2466
01:41:20,990 --> 01:41:18,150
well as documenting the experiences of

2467
01:41:23,930 --> 01:41:21,000
others that I very quickly realized that

2468
01:41:29,420 --> 01:41:23,940
an ETH theory even though it does seem

2469
01:41:32,210 --> 01:41:29,430
to be the most logical theory to jump

2470
01:41:34,610 --> 01:41:32,220
towards that it couldn't possibly in my

2471
01:41:36,920 --> 01:41:34,620
mind totally cover the width and breadth

2472
01:41:40,400 --> 01:41:36,930
and in depth of the of the phenomenon so

2473
01:41:44,000 --> 01:41:40,410
my I started then really revisiting

2474
01:41:46,550 --> 01:41:44,010
Jacques Vallee and Ankiel and and Jim

2475
01:41:49,400 --> 01:41:46,560
Branden we bertha pan excellent book

2476
01:41:51,050 --> 01:41:49,410
also his book weird america if you can

2477
01:41:55,580 --> 01:41:51,060
find it is probably one of my all-time

2478
01:41:57,380 --> 01:41:55,590
favorite books and I started to revisit

2479
01:41:59,210 --> 01:41:57,390
these other alternative theories and

2480
01:42:01,280 --> 01:41:59,220
started attempting to think outside of

2481
01:42:03,590 --> 01:42:01,290
the box a little bit I'm particularly

2482
01:42:06,320 --> 01:42:03,600
interested in cases of similar to what

2483
01:42:09,230 --> 01:42:06,330
Greg mentioned before where you have

2484
01:42:11,420 --> 01:42:09,240
multiple phenomenal events that seem to

2485
01:42:15,230 --> 01:42:11,430
coalesce around one another whether it's

2486
01:42:18,620 --> 01:42:15,240
dimensional type effects or a Bigfoot or

2487
01:42:20,660 --> 01:42:18,630
crypto creatures you know another thing

2488
01:42:23,840 --> 01:42:20,670
that has developed in my thinking is I

2489
01:42:25,400 --> 01:42:23,850
have a strong growing suspicion that the

2490
01:42:30,050 --> 01:42:25,410
intelligence agencies and the government

2491
01:42:32,510 --> 01:42:30,060
is much more involved in in perpetrating

2492
01:42:35,120 --> 01:42:32,520
some of these cases than I think

2493
01:42:38,810 --> 01:42:35,130
initially I thought and I do think that

2494
01:42:41,630 --> 01:42:38,820
there is a major component to this whole

2495
01:42:44,030 --> 01:42:41,640
mystery that has our tax dollars and

2496
01:42:46,250 --> 01:42:44,040
boys with toys written all over it so

2497
01:42:46,910 --> 01:42:46,260
that's another way that my thinking has

2498
01:42:49,490 --> 01:42:46,920
developed

2499
01:42:53,180 --> 01:42:49,500
since meeting Ray's Stanford who is

2500
01:42:55,330 --> 01:42:53,190
totally wedded to an ETH hypothesis and

2501
01:42:59,360 --> 01:42:55,340
is going about proving this with

2502
01:43:00,950 --> 01:42:59,370
analyzing suppose it hard data my

2503
01:43:03,890 --> 01:43:00,960
thinking has come back a little bit

2504
01:43:06,590 --> 01:43:03,900
towards the ETH but I'm still in no way

2505
01:43:09,710 --> 01:43:06,600
shape or form wedded to any particular

2506
01:43:11,780 --> 01:43:09,720
theory except my own which is that

2507
01:43:14,660 --> 01:43:11,790
there's a trickster ish element involved

2508
01:43:17,120 --> 01:43:14,670
in all of these subjects and it's a it's

2509
01:43:20,060 --> 01:43:17,130
a it's a cultural aspect that I think is

2510
01:43:22,430 --> 01:43:20,070
has been totally overlooked in this and

2511
01:43:24,020 --> 01:43:22,440
and the giggle factor the absurdity

2512
01:43:26,090 --> 01:43:24,030
factor that seems to be prevalent in

2513
01:43:28,640 --> 01:43:26,100
many if not most UFO cases for instance

2514
01:43:30,880 --> 01:43:28,650
and it's kind of swept under the rug I

2515
01:43:33,230 --> 01:43:30,890
think may have some very very valuable

2516
01:43:35,120 --> 01:43:33,240
information and we could really get some

2517
01:43:38,270 --> 01:43:35,130
insight into what we're dealing with if

2518
01:43:42,230 --> 01:43:38,280
we look at it in a trickster ish with a

2519
01:43:43,490 --> 01:43:42,240
trickster ish pair of glasses on and so

2520
01:43:46,580 --> 01:43:43,500
in a nutshell that's kind of how a my

2521
01:43:49,280 --> 01:43:46,590
thinking has evolved now just before we

2522
01:43:51,260 --> 01:43:49,290
split for our next hourly break you

2523
01:43:54,680 --> 01:43:51,270
raise something there of a trickster ish

2524
01:43:57,230 --> 01:43:54,690
aspect of UFOs but that also raises

2525
01:43:58,790 --> 01:43:57,240
another kind of deception which is

2526
01:44:01,130 --> 01:43:58,800
deception on the part of government

2527
01:44:03,260 --> 01:44:01,140
officials has the US government other

2528
01:44:07,040 --> 01:44:03,270
governments around the world have they

2529
01:44:09,560 --> 01:44:07,050
been pulling tricks on us maybe creating

2530
01:44:11,660 --> 01:44:09,570
events that we think might be paranormal

2531
01:44:13,610 --> 01:44:11,670
related and I'll remind listeners when

2532
01:44:15,710 --> 01:44:13,620
we had James Kerry on the former

2533
01:44:17,930 --> 01:44:15,720
international director of the mutual UFO

2534
01:44:20,240 --> 01:44:17,940
network on previous episode of the

2535
01:44:21,620 --> 01:44:20,250
podcast that's what he was talking about

2536
01:44:24,680 --> 01:44:21,630
and that's what we're going to talk

2537
01:44:26,930 --> 01:44:24,690
about soon the guests call Kimble Greg

2538
01:44:36,950 --> 01:44:26,940
Bishop the co-host is Chris O'Brien I'm

2539
01:44:41,919 --> 01:44:39,270
[Music]

2540
01:44:43,870 --> 01:44:41,929
hi this is Ted Anderson if you own an

2541
01:44:46,150 --> 01:44:43,880
Apple iPhone and love to listen to your

2542
01:44:47,919 --> 01:44:46,160
favorite programs on GCN I've got good

2543
01:44:50,260 --> 01:44:47,929
news for you I'm proud to announce that

2544
01:44:52,810 --> 01:44:50,270
GCN has a brand new iPhone app available

2545
01:44:54,760 --> 01:44:52,820
for our dedicated listeners at GCM

2546
01:44:56,890 --> 01:44:54,770
live.com listen to your favorite

2547
01:44:58,959 --> 01:44:56,900
hard-hitting GCN programs live or

2548
01:45:01,180 --> 01:44:58,969
on-demand right on your iPhone and the

2549
01:45:03,580 --> 01:45:01,190
best part the gcn iPhone app can be

2550
01:45:05,410 --> 01:45:03,590
yours absolutely free download the

2551
01:45:08,520 --> 01:45:05,420
iPhone app today by clicking on the

2552
01:45:11,080 --> 01:45:08,530
banner at GCM live.com again that's GCM

2553
01:45:12,790 --> 01:45:11,090
live.com hi this is Ted Anderson have

2554
01:45:14,439 --> 01:45:12,800
you ever wondered why banks stockbrokers

2555
01:45:16,390 --> 01:45:14,449
investment advisors won't talk about

2556
01:45:18,729 --> 01:45:16,400
gold IRAs they've been available since

2557
01:45:20,500 --> 01:45:18,739
1986 yet the financial industry won't

2558
01:45:22,390 --> 01:45:20,510
recognize the value of gold for your

2559
01:45:24,700 --> 01:45:22,400
retirement goal has outperformed paper

2560
01:45:26,200 --> 01:45:24,710
investments yet no word about IRAs if

2561
01:45:55,680 --> 01:45:26,210
you would like to have gold for your

2562
01:46:01,720 --> 01:45:58,840
this is our final hour of our special

2563
01:46:04,810 --> 01:46:01,730
fifth anniversary episode the power cast

2564
01:46:08,490 --> 01:46:04,820
we've been here every week 52 weeks a

2565
01:46:11,800 --> 01:46:08,500
year here so basically after five years

2566
01:46:14,380 --> 01:46:11,810
52 episodes a year was still here our

2567
01:46:16,360 --> 01:46:14,390
co-host is Chris O'Brien who became our

2568
01:46:19,390 --> 01:46:16,370
permanent co-host just a few weeks back

2569
01:46:22,150 --> 01:46:19,400
guest co-host Greg Bishop one of our

2570
01:46:24,850 --> 01:46:22,160
previous co-hosts Paul Kimball back for

2571
01:46:26,470 --> 01:46:24,860
an encore and we hope more encores so

2572
01:46:29,100 --> 01:46:26,480
we're talking about here the

2573
01:46:32,200 --> 01:46:29,110
government's deception disinformation

2574
01:46:34,750 --> 01:46:32,210
well it's all about and of course some

2575
01:46:38,710 --> 01:46:34,760
of the ideas that presented by James

2576
01:46:40,570 --> 01:46:38,720
carrion back in the early late 40s the

2577
01:46:42,940 --> 01:46:40,580
early parts of the UFO era Kenneth

2578
01:46:46,660 --> 01:46:42,950
Arnold he goes to Maury island that's a

2579
01:46:49,060 --> 01:46:46,670
hoax Roswell is some kind of government

2580
01:46:51,160 --> 01:46:49,070
deception to cover up some other kind of

2581
01:46:53,140 --> 01:46:51,170
event possibly a secret weapon so when

2582
01:46:56,260 --> 01:46:53,150
it comes to government disinformation

2583
01:46:57,940 --> 01:46:56,270
deception hoaxes etc Paul Kimball where

2584
01:47:01,150 --> 01:46:57,950
do you stand well that's gonna be the

2585
01:47:03,100 --> 01:47:01,160
easiest question to answer yes it's it's

2586
01:47:05,530 --> 01:47:03,110
happened it continues to happen not just

2587
01:47:08,410 --> 01:47:05,540
related to UFOs I think the more

2588
01:47:10,000 --> 01:47:08,420
important question is to ask why does it

2589
01:47:12,190 --> 01:47:10,010
happen because they're trying to cover

2590
01:47:14,620 --> 01:47:12,200
up their knowledge of the answer

2591
01:47:16,090 --> 01:47:14,630
whatever that is to the UFO phenomenon

2592
01:47:18,340 --> 01:47:16,100
and I think most people would say well

2593
01:47:20,980 --> 01:47:18,350
that's aliens right from outer space and

2594
01:47:22,930 --> 01:47:20,990
to me the answer that is no the

2595
01:47:25,270 --> 01:47:22,940
engagement of various intelligence

2596
01:47:26,770 --> 01:47:25,280
agencies and not just in the United

2597
01:47:29,380 --> 01:47:26,780
States but in other countries too

2598
01:47:31,720 --> 01:47:29,390
including my own with the UFO phenomenon

2599
01:47:34,150 --> 01:47:31,730
I have no doubt it's taking place but it

2600
01:47:36,390 --> 01:47:34,160
is been - for lack of a better term

2601
01:47:40,480 --> 01:47:36,400
cover up or distract attention away from

2602
01:47:42,480 --> 01:47:40,490
very real terrestrial projects that our

2603
01:47:45,370 --> 01:47:42,490
governments are putting up in the skies

2604
01:47:47,110 --> 01:47:45,380
above us you know it makes it easier if

2605
01:47:49,210 --> 01:47:47,120
you have stealth bombers or fighters or

2606
01:47:51,040 --> 01:47:49,220
whatever they are drone aircraft things

2607
01:47:53,200 --> 01:47:51,050
you don't want your enemies and in many

2608
01:47:55,480 --> 01:47:53,210
cases even your friends to know about

2609
01:47:57,190 --> 01:47:55,490
that you're developing well it's nice to

2610
01:47:59,680 --> 01:47:57,200
have the UFO phenomenon over there

2611
01:48:01,600 --> 01:47:59,690
because that is a way of test an

2612
01:48:04,990 --> 01:48:01,610
Friedman would say in another context

2613
01:48:06,189 --> 01:48:05,000
tabloid izing tabloid icing yes the

2614
01:48:08,500 --> 01:48:06,199
story

2615
01:48:11,350 --> 01:48:08,510
and making it so that it's not taken

2616
01:48:13,390 --> 01:48:11,360
terribly seriously and also so that

2617
01:48:15,250 --> 01:48:13,400
other intelligence agencies in other

2618
01:48:18,219 --> 01:48:15,260
countries who are your enemies or

2619
01:48:20,350 --> 01:48:18,229
perceived enemies two things one maybe

2620
01:48:23,259 --> 01:48:20,360
they write it off and say oh yeah crazy

2621
01:48:24,729 --> 01:48:23,269
UFO guys but to also and I think this

2622
01:48:26,830 --> 01:48:24,739
might have well been the case in the

2623
01:48:28,600 --> 01:48:26,840
1940s and 1950s

2624
01:48:30,669 --> 01:48:28,610
even the sixties during the height of

2625
01:48:32,770 --> 01:48:30,679
the Cold War trying to convince the

2626
01:48:35,580 --> 01:48:32,780
Soviet Union in particular that maybe

2627
01:48:37,930 --> 01:48:35,590
you did have some sort of advanced

2628
01:48:41,169 --> 01:48:37,940
technology and at least you know put

2629
01:48:43,660 --> 01:48:41,179
that I I think it was a very very minor

2630
01:48:45,549 --> 01:48:43,670
thread throughout all the intelligence

2631
01:48:47,259 --> 01:48:45,559
activities that were going on to the

2632
01:48:48,699 --> 01:48:47,269
point where minor doesn't even begin to

2633
01:48:50,199 --> 01:48:48,709
describe it but you know what the

2634
01:48:52,359 --> 01:48:50,209
intelligence agencies they throw a lot

2635
01:48:54,339 --> 01:48:52,369
of stuff out there and see what sticks

2636
01:48:56,379 --> 01:48:54,349
see what the cumulative effect of it

2637
01:48:59,140 --> 01:48:56,389
might be and I think yeah sure the UFO

2638
01:49:02,589 --> 01:48:59,150
phenomenon has been tied into that it

2639
01:49:04,750 --> 01:49:02,599
does not however in my view matter I'm

2640
01:49:06,759 --> 01:49:04,760
and I Gregg and I disagree he finds it

2641
01:49:08,770 --> 01:49:06,769
interesting and I respect that so that's

2642
01:49:10,209 --> 01:49:08,780
great and you can go down that and study

2643
01:49:12,009 --> 01:49:10,219
it and there are things you can probably

2644
01:49:14,439 --> 01:49:12,019
learn about it it's just nothing I'm

2645
01:49:17,080 --> 01:49:14,449
terribly interested in the phenomenon

2646
01:49:19,449 --> 01:49:17,090
interests me and other aspects related

2647
01:49:21,669 --> 01:49:19,459
to it interests me the engagement of the

2648
01:49:22,989 --> 01:49:21,679
intelligence communities with it doesn't

2649
01:49:26,560 --> 01:49:22,999
interest me because I know it's gone on

2650
01:49:28,810 --> 01:49:26,570
and I know it continues to go on and so

2651
01:49:30,790 --> 01:49:28,820
I'm not gonna fall for it and if other

2652
01:49:32,770 --> 01:49:30,800
people fall for it that's that's up to

2653
01:49:34,989 --> 01:49:32,780
them well one other point I want to add

2654
01:49:36,489 --> 01:49:34,999
here Paul too is that possibly they're

2655
01:49:38,500 --> 01:49:36,499
covering up the fact that they're more

2656
01:49:39,910 --> 01:49:38,510
confused and we are I mean that's

2657
01:49:41,830 --> 01:49:39,920
something that's a mantra that I keep

2658
01:49:43,899 --> 01:49:41,840
hearing myself say there is definitely

2659
01:49:45,399 --> 01:49:43,909
something going on beyond black budget

2660
01:49:47,709 --> 01:49:45,409
projects and that sort of thing it's

2661
01:49:49,689 --> 01:49:47,719
been going on for for millennia and I

2662
01:49:51,879 --> 01:49:49,699
think that the government not having

2663
01:49:53,739 --> 01:49:51,889
control over that or having a complete

2664
01:49:56,020 --> 01:49:53,749
understand you know of it is possibly

2665
01:49:58,180 --> 01:49:56,030
fueling the psychological operations to

2666
01:50:02,350 --> 01:49:58,190
make it appear that they either are in

2667
01:50:04,839 --> 01:50:02,360
control it is our craft or belittling it

2668
01:50:07,149 --> 01:50:04,849
and ridiculing it and using it as an

2669
01:50:10,600 --> 01:50:07,159
effective psychological warfare tool

2670
01:50:13,540 --> 01:50:10,610
maybe but I think that that gives the

2671
01:50:15,310 --> 01:50:13,550
UFO phenomenon far more credence then I

2672
01:50:17,540 --> 01:50:15,320
think it actually has the mainstream

2673
01:50:19,520 --> 01:50:17,550
society so I don't think the government

2674
01:50:22,760 --> 01:50:19,530
maybe at one time and I think in the

2675
01:50:24,920 --> 01:50:22,770
1950s this was definitely true when UFOs

2676
01:50:27,890 --> 01:50:24,930
were reported seriously it was big news

2677
01:50:29,630 --> 01:50:27,900
and you know there was a new frontier of

2678
01:50:31,130 --> 01:50:29,640
science people were very afraid and

2679
01:50:33,290 --> 01:50:31,140
unsure of what was happening absolutely

2680
01:50:35,420 --> 01:50:33,300
I think the government might well have

2681
01:50:36,920 --> 01:50:35,430
had an interest then in saying well we

2682
01:50:39,230 --> 01:50:36,930
don't want to admit that we don't know

2683
01:50:42,050 --> 01:50:39,240
what's flying around in our skies III

2684
01:50:44,900 --> 01:50:42,060
think the UFO phenomenon is so far under

2685
01:50:48,080 --> 01:50:44,910
the radar of mainstream society these

2686
01:50:49,790 --> 01:50:48,090
days or is not taken terribly seriously

2687
01:50:52,340 --> 01:50:49,800
by those people who do pay attention to

2688
01:50:53,510 --> 01:50:52,350
it but I don't think that reason exists

2689
01:50:55,100 --> 01:50:53,520
anymore for the government that they're

2690
01:50:57,110 --> 01:50:55,110
trying to cover up their own ignorance

2691
01:50:58,760 --> 01:50:57,120
because honestly I don't think anybody

2692
01:51:01,040 --> 01:50:58,770
cares I don't think anybody's really

2693
01:51:02,570 --> 01:51:01,050
asking them that question I don't

2694
01:51:05,450 --> 01:51:02,580
imagine somebody's gonna stand up a

2695
01:51:06,770 --> 01:51:05,460
Barack Obama press conference and say do

2696
01:51:09,170 --> 01:51:06,780
you guys really know what's going on

2697
01:51:12,320 --> 01:51:09,180
with the UFO thing I just can't imagine

2698
01:51:14,600 --> 01:51:12,330
that ever happening Jeff peckmon for

2699
01:51:16,160 --> 01:51:14,610
example would be admitted to a press

2700
01:51:19,760 --> 01:51:16,170
conference because he's already running

2701
01:51:21,470 --> 01:51:19,770
for mayor of what Denver well you know

2702
01:51:22,850 --> 01:51:21,480
you can run for all sorts of things in

2703
01:51:24,710 --> 01:51:22,860
the United States you can run to be a

2704
01:51:26,690 --> 01:51:24,720
judge which is insane

2705
01:51:27,830 --> 01:51:26,700
so just because somebody's running for

2706
01:51:29,750 --> 01:51:27,840
mayor I don't think he's gonna get a

2707
01:51:32,390 --> 01:51:29,760
sit-down with Barack Obama I'm just

2708
01:51:34,460 --> 01:51:32,400
guessing of course not I'll ask Greg his

2709
01:51:37,610 --> 01:51:34,470
comment in a moment I'll remind our

2710
01:51:39,860 --> 01:51:37,620
listeners we had guy named Gabriel green

2711
01:51:42,020 --> 01:51:39,870
Amalgamated Flying Saucer Clubs of

2712
01:51:44,270 --> 01:51:42,030
America Pro contactee group in the 50s

2713
01:51:45,620 --> 01:51:44,280
and 60s he ran for president a few times

2714
01:51:47,090 --> 01:51:45,630
I think he might have gotten one vote

2715
01:51:49,820 --> 01:51:47,100
what's your opinion about this

2716
01:51:51,310 --> 01:51:49,830
government disinformation factor Greg

2717
01:51:53,990 --> 01:51:51,320
bishop I think you got something like

2718
01:51:56,120 --> 01:51:54,000
44,000 he got a lot of votes man and in

2719
01:52:00,500 --> 01:51:56,130
the in the election where he ran against

2720
01:52:01,760 --> 01:52:00,510
Kennedy in 1960 Gabe green did but

2721
01:52:03,740 --> 01:52:01,770
almost made the difference you know

2722
01:52:07,160 --> 01:52:03,750
think if we didn't have those votes and

2723
01:52:08,840 --> 01:52:07,170
the dead voters from Chicago maybe

2724
01:52:11,720 --> 01:52:08,850
Richard Nixon would have been elected

2725
01:52:18,160 --> 01:52:11,730
everything yeah exactly he swayed the

2726
01:52:22,700 --> 01:52:21,290
intelligence an agency angle yeah Paul

2727
01:52:25,430 --> 01:52:22,710
is right I'm interested in it because

2728
01:52:27,620 --> 01:52:25,440
I'm interested in that area I'm

2729
01:52:30,680 --> 01:52:27,630
interested in espionage I'm interested

2730
01:52:32,750 --> 01:52:30,690
in you know spies and tradecraft and

2731
01:52:35,530 --> 01:52:32,760
that it's just an interest of mine just

2732
01:52:38,420 --> 01:52:35,540
like I'm interested in you know

2733
01:52:40,550 --> 01:52:38,430
cryptography and and and my paragliding

2734
01:52:43,040 --> 01:52:40,560
and things like that but it just happens

2735
01:52:45,979 --> 01:52:43,050
to be that there's there's a you know

2736
01:52:49,670 --> 01:52:45,989
definite link between intelligence

2737
01:52:51,470 --> 01:52:49,680
agencies specifically the Air Force and

2738
01:52:55,910 --> 01:52:51,480
they're at their Intelligence Agency and

2739
01:52:57,439 --> 01:52:55,920
the UFO subject partly because it can be

2740
01:52:59,540 --> 01:52:57,449
used as a good smokescreen for other

2741
01:53:02,060 --> 01:52:59,550
things and to keep people away from

2742
01:53:03,680 --> 01:53:02,070
anything serious by having to make fun

2743
01:53:05,390 --> 01:53:03,690
of it because most people when they hear

2744
01:53:07,580 --> 01:53:05,400
UFO are gonna start laughing and turn

2745
01:53:09,050 --> 01:53:07,590
the other way and people that don't

2746
01:53:12,590 --> 01:53:09,060
laugh and turn the other way are either

2747
01:53:14,060 --> 01:53:12,600
one UFO fanatics or to their people from

2748
01:53:15,820 --> 01:53:14,070
forming governments to people you don't

2749
01:53:19,430 --> 01:53:15,830
want around the sniffing around or

2750
01:53:22,189 --> 01:53:19,440
facilities asking about UFOs so it's a

2751
01:53:26,990 --> 01:53:22,199
it's a good tool so yeah I think it's

2752
01:53:28,430 --> 01:53:27,000
still used and and I and like Chris said

2753
01:53:30,860 --> 01:53:28,440
and I've been saying this for years and

2754
01:53:32,030 --> 01:53:30,870
years and so is Chris I don't think the

2755
01:53:33,800 --> 01:53:32,040
government really knows what they're

2756
01:53:36,290 --> 01:53:33,810
dealing with with regards to the the

2757
01:53:38,120 --> 01:53:36,300
core UFO subject what really is going on

2758
01:53:40,580 --> 01:53:38,130
some sort of extra human intelligence

2759
01:53:43,160 --> 01:53:40,590
they don't know what to do about it they

2760
01:53:45,939 --> 01:53:43,170
don't know what it is but if they can

2761
01:53:48,709 --> 01:53:45,949
use it to their ends they'll use it and

2762
01:53:51,470 --> 01:53:48,719
go ahead I was just gonna saying I don't

2763
01:53:52,459 --> 01:53:51,480
think they really care in the same way

2764
01:53:55,250 --> 01:53:52,469
that I don't think they really care

2765
01:53:57,650 --> 01:53:55,260
about ghosts investigation or whether it

2766
01:53:59,870 --> 01:53:57,660
goes to real or any of this stuff I just

2767
01:54:02,000 --> 01:53:59,880
don't think it's on their radar and they

2768
01:54:03,860 --> 01:54:02,010
just care unless it's it can be useful

2769
01:54:06,200 --> 01:54:03,870
or it becomes a public relations

2770
01:54:08,390 --> 01:54:06,210
headache and it's more of a useful thing

2771
01:54:10,970 --> 01:54:08,400
to you the subject is more useful to

2772
01:54:11,660 --> 01:54:10,980
them or other other issues than we might

2773
01:54:14,870 --> 01:54:11,670
think

2774
01:54:17,360 --> 01:54:14,880
normally it's more useful to them than a

2775
01:54:18,770 --> 01:54:17,370
public relations headache right now and

2776
01:54:20,840 --> 01:54:18,780
it has been for quite a while

2777
01:54:23,810 --> 01:54:20,850
sure and you should people should always

2778
01:54:26,090 --> 01:54:23,820
avoid and I think ufology quote quote

2779
01:54:28,640 --> 01:54:26,100
does this should avoid doing what they

2780
01:54:31,250 --> 01:54:28,650
do which is looking at government as

2781
01:54:33,260 --> 01:54:31,260
some sort of monolithic agency or er

2782
01:54:34,880 --> 01:54:33,270
entity or even the intelligence agencies

2783
01:54:36,950 --> 01:54:34,890
yeah the one thing you have to

2784
01:54:39,709 --> 01:54:36,960
understand about the 1950s in particular

2785
01:54:41,390 --> 01:54:39,719
the 40s and the 50s were the tremendous

2786
01:54:43,490 --> 01:54:41,400
rivalries between the intelligence

2787
01:54:45,050 --> 01:54:43,500
agencies most of which were new

2788
01:54:47,420 --> 01:54:45,060
it wasn't something the United States

2789
01:54:49,010 --> 01:54:47,430
did prior to World War two they learned

2790
01:54:50,600 --> 01:54:49,020
everything they learned basically from

2791
01:54:52,910 --> 01:54:50,610
the British who had been doing it

2792
01:54:54,740 --> 01:54:52,920
throughout and then the Germans the

2793
01:54:57,200 --> 01:54:54,750
Germans - but the United States

2794
01:54:59,000 --> 01:54:57,210
basically had no real experience in

2795
01:55:00,740 --> 01:54:59,010
intelligence and yet suddenly after

2796
01:55:02,540 --> 01:55:00,750
World War two because you're now in a

2797
01:55:04,400 --> 01:55:02,550
cold war with the Soviets and you're

2798
01:55:07,310 --> 01:55:04,410
representing the West not the British

2799
01:55:09,290 --> 01:55:07,320
anymore then to take over and create

2800
01:55:10,820 --> 01:55:09,300
these Intel agencies from scratch you

2801
01:55:13,040 --> 01:55:10,830
have military intelligence agencies

2802
01:55:15,350 --> 01:55:13,050
within the various service branches

2803
01:55:18,230 --> 01:55:15,360
fighting amongst themselves then the FBI

2804
01:55:20,120 --> 01:55:18,240
then the CIA then the NSA then all the

2805
01:55:21,680 --> 01:55:20,130
other lettered agencies that some of

2806
01:55:23,450 --> 01:55:21,690
which we might not even know about today

2807
01:55:25,250 --> 01:55:23,460
I'll tell you one will do more fighting

2808
01:55:26,930 --> 01:55:25,260
if we don't break right now we have Paul

2809
01:55:29,660 --> 01:55:26,940
Campbell Greg Bishop on our fifth

2810
01:55:32,150 --> 01:55:29,670
anniversary episode the co-host is Chris

2811
01:55:40,760 --> 01:55:32,160
O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg you're in the

2812
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para ghost you expect professional

2813
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service from your doctor your accountant

2814
01:55:46,670 --> 01:55:44,490
and even the girl who takes your morning

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coffee order why not from your domain

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2895
01:59:59,680 --> 01:59:57,370
this is the wrong tire co-author of the

2896
02:00:05,230 --> 01:59:59,690
UFO encyclopedia other books you're

2897
02:00:07,720 --> 02:00:05,240
listening to the parrot cat we have

2898
02:00:10,000 --> 02:00:07,730
Chris our Brian doing his best to say

2899
02:00:11,020 --> 02:00:10,010
the para cast in the most frightening

2900
02:00:13,210 --> 02:00:11,030
way possible

2901
02:00:15,190 --> 02:00:13,220
Paul Kimball joins us Greg Bishop the

2902
02:00:17,740 --> 02:00:15,200
fifth anniversary episode of the power

2903
02:00:20,320 --> 02:00:17,750
cast five years of this we're still here

2904
02:00:21,850 --> 02:00:20,330
they said could never be done and we

2905
02:00:24,550 --> 02:00:21,860
don't know what we're doing but let's

2906
02:00:26,230 --> 02:00:24,560
look at one silly theory I came up with

2907
02:00:29,500 --> 02:00:26,240
on the power cast a long time ago

2908
02:00:31,840 --> 02:00:29,510
talking to Kathleen Martin and of course

2909
02:00:34,540 --> 02:00:31,850
Stanton Friedman about Barney and Betty

2910
02:00:37,270 --> 02:00:34,550
Hill I tell you I did meet Betty hill a

2911
02:00:38,650 --> 02:00:37,280
couple times at ufo-related conventions

2912
02:00:40,270 --> 02:00:38,660
seem to be a pretty nice woman

2913
02:00:43,270 --> 02:00:40,280
I called her kind of a grandmotherly

2914
02:00:46,330 --> 02:00:43,280
type and I always felt she was sincere

2915
02:00:49,450 --> 02:00:46,340
but I wondered here revisiting Barney

2916
02:00:52,270 --> 02:00:49,460
and Betty Hill who lived near a military

2917
02:00:54,220 --> 02:00:52,280
base and I guess before going into

2918
02:00:55,780 --> 02:00:54,230
postal service Barney Hill was in the

2919
02:00:57,550 --> 02:00:55,790
military they have friends in the

2920
02:01:01,510 --> 02:00:57,560
military and we know the government has

2921
02:01:03,220 --> 02:01:01,520
engaged in LSD experiments mind-control

2922
02:01:05,080 --> 02:01:03,230
experiments over the years any

2923
02:01:07,420 --> 02:01:05,090
possibility here that the Barney and

2924
02:01:09,000 --> 02:01:07,430
Betty Hill case in and of itself for

2925
02:01:12,550 --> 02:01:09,010
getting all the other abduction cases

2926
02:01:16,920 --> 02:01:12,560
just that one may have been some kind of

2927
02:01:20,410 --> 02:01:16,930
silly shall we say mind control

2928
02:01:22,720 --> 02:01:20,420
experiment Paul Kimball no for a couple

2929
02:01:24,310 --> 02:01:22,730
of reasons one I think we would know

2930
02:01:27,160 --> 02:01:24,320
about it by now I mean we know about

2931
02:01:29,500 --> 02:01:27,170
MKULTRA we know about most of the dirty

2932
02:01:32,440 --> 02:01:29,510
tricks I that were going on in the 50s

2933
02:01:34,210 --> 02:01:32,450
and 60s if it was something like that

2934
02:01:36,880 --> 02:01:34,220
the Betty and Barney Hill story would be

2935
02:01:39,130 --> 02:01:36,890
pretty low on the list of crazy antics

2936
02:01:40,570 --> 02:01:39,140
that the u.s. government was up to in

2937
02:01:42,790 --> 02:01:40,580
terms of experimenting on their own

2938
02:01:46,000 --> 02:01:42,800
citizens so I don't see any reason why

2939
02:01:46,990 --> 02:01:46,010
they would continue to that information

2940
02:01:49,570 --> 02:01:47,000
would not have been made public

2941
02:01:51,430 --> 02:01:49,580
also the hallmarks of the case whenever

2942
02:01:52,120 --> 02:01:51,440
you think about the so-called abduction

2943
02:01:54,700 --> 02:01:52,130
and nygma

2944
02:01:57,040 --> 02:01:54,710
I don't think that what they described

2945
02:01:58,300 --> 02:01:57,050
is happening if you accept what you

2946
02:01:59,560 --> 02:01:58,310
would have to do with with that theory

2947
02:02:01,870 --> 02:01:59,570
genius you'd have to accept what they

2948
02:02:03,880 --> 02:02:01,880
described as being accurate and then say

2949
02:02:05,350 --> 02:02:03,890
well the government pulled it off and I

2950
02:02:06,970 --> 02:02:05,360
just don't think that the government at

2951
02:02:08,500 --> 02:02:06,980
the time would have had the resources to

2952
02:02:11,620 --> 02:02:08,510
pull off what the

2953
02:02:14,020 --> 02:02:11,630
described and I find the the hell case

2954
02:02:16,390 --> 02:02:14,030
is interesting because then back to my

2955
02:02:18,700 --> 02:02:16,400
old friend the late Carl flock whose

2956
02:02:22,000 --> 02:02:18,710
idea was that

2957
02:02:23,740 --> 02:02:22,010
aliens did visit Earth in the 40s 50s

2958
02:02:24,130 --> 02:02:23,750
and 60s basically showed up checked us

2959
02:02:25,810 --> 02:02:24,140
out

2960
02:02:27,790 --> 02:02:25,820
Oh nuclear weapons all the things stand

2961
02:02:30,700 --> 02:02:27,800
talks about see what they're up to said

2962
02:02:32,650 --> 02:02:30,710
great well we'll be back you know in 50

2963
02:02:34,030 --> 02:02:32,660
60 100 years when you've progressed to

2964
02:02:37,840 --> 02:02:34,040
the next level and then they went away

2965
02:02:39,850 --> 02:02:37,850
and he always said that the hill case

2966
02:02:41,610 --> 02:02:39,860
was the one abduction case that he

2967
02:02:43,630 --> 02:02:41,620
actually thought was a legitimate

2968
02:02:45,520 --> 02:02:43,640
interaction between humans and

2969
02:02:48,490 --> 02:02:45,530
extraterrestrials I'm not saying that

2970
02:02:50,260 --> 02:02:48,500
makes it so but when a guy like Carl

2971
02:02:51,850 --> 02:02:50,270
flock who says that all other abduction

2972
02:02:53,410 --> 02:02:51,860
cases could be explained somehow and

2973
02:02:55,630 --> 02:02:53,420
then by the way the aliens were here

2974
02:02:57,250 --> 02:02:55,640
would have left said he points to that

2975
02:02:59,800 --> 02:02:57,260
one case and he says that one he

2976
02:03:01,240 --> 02:02:59,810
actually thought was was interaction

2977
02:03:03,340 --> 02:03:01,250
with aliens I thought that's interesting

2978
02:03:04,780 --> 02:03:03,350
and you know when a guy like Carl - I

2979
02:03:06,760 --> 02:03:04,790
took seriously says something like that

2980
02:03:08,920 --> 02:03:06,770
it makes me take the case maybe a little

2981
02:03:11,170 --> 02:03:08,930
more seriously than I would otherwise be

2982
02:03:14,080 --> 02:03:11,180
inclined to Greg Bishop our favorite

2983
02:03:16,000 --> 02:03:14,090
cheerleader what do you think as far as

2984
02:03:19,480 --> 02:03:16,010
being a military operation I agree with

2985
02:03:21,430 --> 02:03:19,490
Paul maybe not for the same reasons the

2986
02:03:22,840 --> 02:03:21,440
first reason being that it what did you

2987
02:03:24,190 --> 02:03:22,850
say Paul would before you said I don't

2988
02:03:26,500 --> 02:03:24,200
think they could have pulled it off I

2989
02:03:29,230 --> 02:03:26,510
think I said something along the lines

2990
02:03:31,000 --> 02:03:29,240
of given what we know already about what

2991
02:03:33,850 --> 02:03:31,010
they were doing it would have been one

2992
02:03:36,100 --> 02:03:33,860
of the lesser sort of right infringement

2993
02:03:38,170 --> 02:03:36,110
on people's rights and we would yell

2994
02:03:39,880 --> 02:03:38,180
about by now oh that's what I disagreed

2995
02:03:42,130 --> 02:03:39,890
with I don't think we know about all the

2996
02:03:44,370 --> 02:03:42,140
dirty tricks because just because I

2997
02:03:48,160 --> 02:03:44,380
think the incredibly widespread

2998
02:03:50,860 --> 02:03:48,170
implementation of them and through

2999
02:03:52,420 --> 02:03:50,870
various levels of classification by that

3000
02:03:54,100 --> 02:03:52,430
you know we wouldn't here but a lot of

3001
02:03:57,550 --> 02:03:54,110
those records were burned actually or

3002
02:03:59,470 --> 02:03:57,560
destroy in a 70s or 80s I think before

3003
02:04:02,050 --> 02:03:59,480
the Church Committee could get to them

3004
02:04:05,290 --> 02:04:02,060
sure but I I would say that because the

3005
02:04:07,240 --> 02:04:05,300
hill case is such a public case so well

3006
02:04:09,370 --> 02:04:07,250
known even outside ufology I mean

3007
02:04:11,410 --> 02:04:09,380
mainstream it's it's been a feature film

3008
02:04:13,990 --> 02:04:11,420
there have been books yeah your reports

3009
02:04:15,250 --> 02:04:14,000
I'm sure that I have no doubt that if

3010
02:04:17,650 --> 02:04:15,260
the government had pulled that off some

3011
02:04:20,020 --> 02:04:17,660
deep throat like character would have

3012
02:04:21,330 --> 02:04:20,030
come forward either anonymously or

3013
02:04:22,890 --> 02:04:21,340
publicly by now

3014
02:04:24,750 --> 02:04:22,900
and would have said you know cuz sure

3015
02:04:26,520 --> 02:04:24,760
there's stuff that's still him but that

3016
02:04:27,990 --> 02:04:26,530
case being so public somebody would have

3017
02:04:29,790 --> 02:04:28,000
you would have had to have a lot of

3018
02:04:31,920 --> 02:04:29,800
people involved I'm sure somebody would

3019
02:04:33,510 --> 02:04:31,930
have come forward and say something yeah

3020
02:04:34,880 --> 02:04:33,520
then you have the problem of somebody

3021
02:04:37,770 --> 02:04:34,890
saying well how many more of these

3022
02:04:39,690 --> 02:04:37,780
abductions are our result of that which

3023
02:04:41,340 --> 02:04:39,700
is why I don't the that's the one thing

3024
02:04:42,960 --> 02:04:41,350
I disagree with you I mean if it was

3025
02:04:44,220 --> 02:04:42,970
successful I don't think they would have

3026
02:04:47,070 --> 02:04:44,230
told anybody about it because it's

3027
02:04:49,680 --> 02:04:47,080
successful you know keep using it as far

3028
02:04:51,570 --> 02:04:49,690
the hill case I I've said certain things

3029
02:04:53,600 --> 02:04:51,580
about it I've written about it and said

3030
02:04:56,580 --> 02:04:53,610
that there are a lot of cultural

3031
02:04:58,740 --> 02:04:56,590
antecedents to abduction meaning in the

3032
02:05:01,080 --> 02:04:58,750
pop culture and about what aliens look

3033
02:05:03,300 --> 02:05:01,090
like running around at that time not

3034
02:05:04,860 --> 02:05:03,310
meaning that the hills did not have an

3035
02:05:06,390 --> 02:05:04,870
experience I think they had some sort of

3036
02:05:08,250 --> 02:05:06,400
genuine experience with something that

3037
02:05:10,890 --> 02:05:08,260
they could not explain whether that's

3038
02:05:12,690 --> 02:05:10,900
something psychological or aliens from

3039
02:05:14,430 --> 02:05:12,700
other planets or something in between I

3040
02:05:16,950 --> 02:05:14,440
do not know but I think that's a very

3041
02:05:19,500 --> 02:05:16,960
important watershed case and for better

3042
02:05:21,240 --> 02:05:19,510
or worse I think was the blueprint for

3043
02:05:23,700 --> 02:05:21,250
anything like it in the future which i

3044
02:05:26,730 --> 02:05:23,710
think is unfortunate because abduction

3045
02:05:30,630 --> 02:05:26,740
research now just tends or the the the

3046
02:05:33,120 --> 02:05:30,640
the blueprint or the the template of the

3047
02:05:34,500 --> 02:05:33,130
barn Ian and Betty Hill case and and I

3048
02:05:37,290 --> 02:05:34,510
suppose a few after that but that you

3049
02:05:38,610 --> 02:05:37,300
know it was such a it's such a 300-pound

3050
02:05:40,620 --> 02:05:38,620
gorilla sitting right in the middle of

3051
02:05:41,940 --> 02:05:40,630
abduction research they you can't really

3052
02:05:44,010 --> 02:05:41,950
ignore it and I think I think people

3053
02:05:45,810 --> 02:05:44,020
don't and the fact that they don't

3054
02:05:47,130 --> 02:05:45,820
ignore it it's to their peril I mean

3055
02:05:48,690 --> 02:05:47,140
there's there's things with the

3056
02:05:50,580 --> 02:05:48,700
abduction research community we can talk

3057
02:05:53,190 --> 02:05:50,590
about later but and I think we will

3058
02:05:55,020 --> 02:05:53,200
Chris what do you think well I agree

3059
02:05:57,360 --> 02:05:55,030
with both Paul and Greg and I think Greg

3060
02:06:00,240 --> 02:05:57,370
brings up a very I think important

3061
02:06:03,450 --> 02:06:00,250
salient point and that is that prior to

3062
02:06:05,580 --> 02:06:03,460
that case you didn't really have this

3063
02:06:07,560 --> 02:06:05,590
this is really the first linchpin sort

3064
02:06:10,920 --> 02:06:07,570
of you know as as you said a watershed

3065
02:06:13,020 --> 02:06:10,930
case there's details in there that you

3066
02:06:15,090 --> 02:06:13,030
don't find in any other cases to my

3067
02:06:17,880 --> 02:06:15,100
knowledge prior to this so I think the

3068
02:06:19,860 --> 02:06:17,890
very fact that it was the first lends

3069
02:06:22,290 --> 02:06:19,870
credence to the reality of the

3070
02:06:25,260 --> 02:06:22,300
experience now what that reality was who

3071
02:06:27,120 --> 02:06:25,270
the players were I don't I don't get a

3072
02:06:29,100 --> 02:06:27,130
sense that it was a government military

3073
02:06:30,600 --> 02:06:29,110
thing but there were psychological

3074
02:06:32,180 --> 02:06:30,610
elements that were introduced into that

3075
02:06:33,620 --> 02:06:32,190
case that I think are very very

3076
02:06:36,380 --> 02:06:33,630
important

3077
02:06:39,320 --> 02:06:36,390
some of the details that you find I've

3078
02:06:42,530 --> 02:06:39,330
also heard at one point there the tape

3079
02:06:45,170 --> 02:06:42,540
of Barney's regression and if that guy

3080
02:06:47,360 --> 02:06:45,180
is acting you know he he could have got

3081
02:06:49,250 --> 02:06:47,370
an Academy Award for that they

3082
02:06:51,230 --> 02:06:49,260
definitely had some very high strange

3083
02:06:53,210 --> 02:06:51,240
experience occur to them but I think

3084
02:06:55,220 --> 02:06:53,220
that they were fed trickster ish type

3085
02:06:57,860 --> 02:06:55,230
disinformation that I think the starmap

3086
02:07:01,070 --> 02:06:57,870
is a good good example of that are the

3087
02:07:04,280 --> 02:07:01,080
uniforms kind of German looking uniform

3088
02:07:06,020 --> 02:07:04,290
as it was described for instance there

3089
02:07:08,840 --> 02:07:06,030
are some very interesting elements to

3090
02:07:11,240 --> 02:07:08,850
the case that do that do I think this is

3091
02:07:13,310 --> 02:07:11,250
Greg and Paul both point out make it a

3092
02:07:15,230 --> 02:07:13,320
very pivotal important case and there is

3093
02:07:17,270 --> 02:07:15,240
that aspect there still I don't know

3094
02:07:19,280 --> 02:07:17,280
that I can dismiss the possibility that

3095
02:07:22,490 --> 02:07:19,290
there may have been some government

3096
02:07:24,770 --> 02:07:22,500
involvement maybe some elements there we

3097
02:07:26,690 --> 02:07:24,780
know that the various military forces

3098
02:07:28,010 --> 02:07:26,700
intelligence forces didn't always talk

3099
02:07:30,620 --> 02:07:28,020
to each other certainly that was one of

3100
02:07:32,180 --> 02:07:30,630
the complaints made during 9/11 that if

3101
02:07:33,980 --> 02:07:32,190
everybody kind of put their heads

3102
02:07:35,510 --> 02:07:33,990
together they would have understood what

3103
02:07:37,820 --> 02:07:35,520
this threat was I'm not going to get

3104
02:07:40,340 --> 02:07:37,830
into the conspiracy theories that maybe

3105
02:07:42,860 --> 02:07:40,350
our government allowed it to happen

3106
02:07:44,630 --> 02:07:42,870
or was somehow otherwise involved I

3107
02:07:46,490 --> 02:07:44,640
think that's for another subject maybe

3108
02:07:48,080 --> 02:07:46,500
when we have ken Thomas on again we

3109
02:07:49,730 --> 02:07:48,090
talked about the conspiracy theories we

3110
02:07:52,070 --> 02:07:49,740
could look at that but we look at things

3111
02:07:54,020 --> 02:07:52,080
like the military the intelligence

3112
02:07:56,990 --> 02:07:54,030
agencies not talking to one another and

3113
02:07:59,840 --> 02:07:57,000
someone pulls off this crazy quilt UFO

3114
02:08:01,850 --> 02:07:59,850
abduction and maybe it's repeated maybe

3115
02:08:04,130 --> 02:08:01,860
it's not maybe they don't want to admit

3116
02:08:06,650 --> 02:08:04,140
it is our fifth anniversary episode of

3117
02:08:09,020 --> 02:08:06,660
the power cast our guests or Paul

3118
02:08:12,320 --> 02:08:09,030
Kimball former co-host one of our guest

3119
02:08:14,720 --> 02:08:12,330
co-hosts Greg Bishop and of course our

3120
02:08:17,240 --> 02:08:14,730
regular co-host Chris O'Brien and by the

3121
02:08:19,670 --> 02:08:17,250
way yes we would have liked have had

3122
02:08:21,350 --> 02:08:19,680
Nick Redfern but he's travelling and

3123
02:08:22,940 --> 02:08:21,360
wasn't able to attend we'll have him

3124
02:08:25,070 --> 02:08:22,950
back in the future we've got a lot more

3125
02:08:28,100 --> 02:08:25,080
to come on this week's fifth anniversary

3126
02:08:36,140 --> 02:08:28,110
episode I'm gene Steinberg you're in the

3127
02:08:36,150 --> 02:08:40,170
[Music]

3128
02:08:46,300 --> 02:08:44,170
is there a secret UFO agenda to strange

3129
02:08:48,820 --> 02:08:46,310
creatures from the darkest corners of

3130
02:08:51,430 --> 02:08:48,830
the mind roam the earth is there

3131
02:08:55,090 --> 02:08:51,440
evidence for mind control time travel

3132
02:08:56,920 --> 02:08:55,100
are devious government conspiracies find

3133
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02:09:02,200 --> 02:08:59,989
conspiracies paranormal activity and at

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02:09:05,140 --> 02:09:02,210
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to Tim Beckley's conspiracy girl it's

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02:09:10,660 --> 02:09:08,000
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3141
02:09:21,729 --> 02:09:19,880
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3142
02:09:27,220 --> 02:09:21,739
sent an email with your name and address

3143
02:09:32,590 --> 02:09:27,230
to Mister UFO at what TV net that's mr.

3144
02:09:38,040 --> 02:09:32,600
UFO at web TV dotnet find out what they

3145
02:09:41,139 --> 02:09:39,239
[Music]

3146
02:09:42,699 --> 02:09:41,149
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3150
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3156
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3157
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3158
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3159
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3160
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3166
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3170
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3171
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3172
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3173
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3174
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3175
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3176
02:10:44,379 --> 02:10:42,979
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3177
02:10:46,179 --> 02:10:44,389
whole professions intent on

3178
02:10:48,729 --> 02:10:46,189
short-circuiting humanity's well-being

3179
02:10:50,919 --> 02:10:48,739
GMO food legislation protecting big

3180
02:10:52,810 --> 02:10:50,929
agriculture the attempted elimination of

3181
02:10:54,669 --> 02:10:52,820
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3182
02:10:56,589 --> 02:10:54,679
seems their hand has been tipped they

3183
02:10:59,020 --> 02:10:56,599
want to dictate your health wealth and

3184
02:11:01,779 --> 02:10:59,030
your longevity whatever the outcome we

3185
02:11:03,729 --> 02:11:01,789
have a solution wild edible food why

3186
02:11:05,620 --> 02:11:03,739
worry about food when all has been

3187
02:11:07,270 --> 02:11:05,630
provided we imagine that we were ejected

3188
02:11:09,429 --> 02:11:07,280
from the garden and never invited back

3189
02:11:11,319 --> 02:11:09,439
but the gardens still here there is an

3190
02:11:12,969 --> 02:11:11,329
endless wild abundance which grows all

3191
02:11:15,580 --> 02:11:12,979
over our green earth just waiting for

3192
02:11:17,620 --> 02:11:15,590
you to wake up and see it let our Linda

3193
02:11:20,139 --> 02:11:17,630
Runyon teach you how to see no gap

3194
02:11:22,929 --> 02:11:20,149
prepare store and eat wild edible food

3195
02:11:24,729 --> 02:11:22,939
save money add nutrition and ignore the

3196
02:11:27,399 --> 02:11:24,739
noise when you go shopping in nature's

3197
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supermarket go to of the field comm and

3198
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3199
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3200
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3201
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3202
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3203
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3204
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3205
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3206
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3207
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3208
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3209
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3210
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3216
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3218
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3219
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3220
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3221
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3222
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3223
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3224
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3225
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3227
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3228
02:12:55,500 --> 02:12:53,500
Leslie Kane and I'm with the Coalition

3229
02:12:59,399 --> 02:12:55,510
for freedom of information and you are

3230
02:13:01,680 --> 02:12:59,409
listening to the podcast we return to

3231
02:13:04,590 --> 02:13:01,690
more segments left this is the para cast

3232
02:13:06,209 --> 02:13:04,600
I'm Jean Steinberg our co-host is Chris

3233
02:13:09,030 --> 02:13:06,219
O'Brien we're doing the fifth

3234
02:13:11,700 --> 02:13:09,040
anniversary show with Greg Bishop and

3235
02:13:14,209 --> 02:13:11,710
with Paul Kimball and since we raised

3236
02:13:16,709 --> 02:13:14,219
the ugly specter or otherwise of

3237
02:13:19,770 --> 02:13:16,719
abductions let's kind of go to this

3238
02:13:21,450 --> 02:13:19,780
route maybe we're looking at Alice in

3239
02:13:24,180 --> 02:13:21,460
Wonderland through the looking-glass

3240
02:13:25,560 --> 02:13:24,190
let's see what happens here now unless

3241
02:13:26,939 --> 02:13:25,570
you want to bring it up I don't want to

3242
02:13:29,070 --> 02:13:26,949
get into too much of the current

3243
02:13:29,910 --> 02:13:29,080
conflict involving Emma Woods or

3244
02:13:34,470 --> 02:13:29,920
whatever her name is

3245
02:13:36,570 --> 02:13:34,480
and David Jacobs and Carol Rainey and of

3246
02:13:39,090 --> 02:13:36,580
course but Hopkins partly because I

3247
02:13:41,250 --> 02:13:39,100
think it's all distraction I wanna know

3248
02:13:43,350 --> 02:13:41,260
what's happening with abductions and I'd

3249
02:13:46,680 --> 02:13:43,360
like to get all of your reactions other

3250
02:13:48,510 --> 02:13:46,690
than that stuff Paul Campbell what can

3251
02:13:51,330 --> 02:13:48,520
you say about abductions in general

3252
02:13:53,700 --> 02:13:51,340
beyond Barney and Betty Hill is it still

3253
02:13:56,370 --> 02:13:53,710
happening are these cases more than just

3254
02:13:59,220 --> 02:13:56,380
some kind of mental aberration what read

3255
02:14:03,840 --> 02:13:59,230
the abduction enigma by Ken Randall Russ

3256
02:14:05,700 --> 02:14:03,850
Estes and dr. William cone and remedy is

3257
02:14:07,320 --> 02:14:05,710
the source of wit that would be about

3258
02:14:09,479 --> 02:14:07,330
all I have to say on the abduction

3259
02:14:12,410 --> 02:14:09,489
enigma it's it's not something that I

3260
02:14:15,390 --> 02:14:12,420
find terribly interesting frankly and

3261
02:14:17,640 --> 02:14:15,400
you know the current bruja I think is

3262
02:14:19,979 --> 02:14:17,650
largely played itself out and I talked

3263
02:14:22,399 --> 02:14:19,989
about that on Greg's show a week ago so

3264
02:14:24,689 --> 02:14:22,409
yeah I read the abduction enigma it's

3265
02:14:27,300 --> 02:14:24,699
for me it pretty much covers everything

3266
02:14:29,370 --> 02:14:27,310
that you need to know the one area I

3267
02:14:31,770 --> 02:14:29,380
would disagree with my good friend Kevin

3268
02:14:33,510 --> 02:14:31,780
Randall on is I still think that the

3269
02:14:35,760 --> 02:14:33,520
Betty and Barney Hill cases we were

3270
02:14:38,430 --> 02:14:35,770
discussing is of interest even though

3271
02:14:39,689 --> 02:14:38,440
I'm not sure what it represented now in

3272
02:14:41,850 --> 02:14:39,699
short for those who haven't read the

3273
02:14:45,810 --> 02:14:41,860
book can you give us maybe the Reader's

3274
02:14:49,020 --> 02:14:45,820
Digest or quick snappy pithy comment of

3275
02:14:51,039 --> 02:14:49,030
what it concludes no no yeah basically

3276
02:14:54,309 --> 02:14:51,049
that the abduction phenomena

3277
02:14:57,549 --> 02:14:54,319
can be explained using prosaic means

3278
02:14:59,259 --> 02:14:57,559
that and not just one explanation I

3279
02:15:01,269 --> 02:14:59,269
think that's the mistake that people

3280
02:15:03,639 --> 02:15:01,279
have consistently made you would look at

3281
02:15:05,739 --> 02:15:03,649
somebody like Susan Clancy's work and

3282
02:15:07,059 --> 02:15:05,749
she explains an aspect of it or some

3283
02:15:08,259 --> 02:15:07,069
aspects of it and say oh well she's

3284
02:15:10,719 --> 02:15:08,269
trying to explain everything but what

3285
02:15:14,469 --> 02:15:10,729
about these cases over here and it's a

3286
02:15:17,439 --> 02:15:14,479
very broad sort of phenomenon and I

3287
02:15:19,389 --> 02:15:17,449
think Kevin and his co writers were more

3288
02:15:21,879 --> 02:15:19,399
or less right that as we understand it

3289
02:15:25,209 --> 02:15:21,889
the modern alien abduction phenomenon is

3290
02:15:27,459 --> 02:15:25,219
wholly explainable is there still some

3291
02:15:28,839 --> 02:15:27,469
sort of thing there that might be of

3292
02:15:32,259 --> 02:15:28,849
interest that might actually have a

3293
02:15:34,949 --> 02:15:32,269
paranormal aspect to it maybe and I

3294
02:15:37,119 --> 02:15:34,959
underline maybe 20 times some few cases

3295
02:15:39,099 --> 02:15:37,129
divorced if you can pull them away from

3296
02:15:42,549 --> 02:15:39,109
the mess that is alien abduction

3297
02:15:44,319 --> 02:15:42,559
so-called research that that is a reason

3298
02:15:47,019 --> 02:15:44,329
over the last 20 or 30 years courtesy of

3299
02:15:49,629 --> 02:15:47,029
Jacobson Hopkins and everybody else but

3300
02:15:51,369 --> 02:15:49,639
I think it's become so difficult to the

3301
02:15:54,039 --> 02:15:51,379
point of being impossible to divorce the

3302
02:15:55,659 --> 02:15:54,049
two that whatever the abduction enigma

3303
02:15:58,329 --> 02:15:55,669
or phenomena is if there was a

3304
02:16:01,659 --> 02:15:58,339
paranormal component to it I think is

3305
02:16:05,379 --> 02:16:01,669
lost I think the ability to try and get

3306
02:16:07,449 --> 02:16:05,389
at what that is is gone for now and it

3307
02:16:10,179 --> 02:16:07,459
will take a different generation perhaps

3308
02:16:12,279 --> 02:16:10,189
of researchers to tackle it in a

3309
02:16:14,199 --> 02:16:12,289
different way maybe to see if there is

3310
02:16:16,569 --> 02:16:14,209
something there that's something that

3311
02:16:18,329 --> 02:16:16,579
predates the alien meme that has been

3312
02:16:20,679 --> 02:16:18,339
around for the last thirty years and

3313
02:16:22,869 --> 02:16:20,689
then you know that it seems like a sort

3314
02:16:24,819 --> 02:16:22,879
of self contradictory answer but there

3315
02:16:26,859 --> 02:16:24,829
you go that's the paranormal even within

3316
02:16:28,359 --> 02:16:26,869
an answer you start at point a five

3317
02:16:29,500 --> 02:16:28,369
minutes later you're at point B and

3318
02:16:31,299 --> 02:16:29,510
maybe you're saying something that

3319
02:16:33,099 --> 02:16:31,309
contradicted point a but it's the

3320
02:16:35,049 --> 02:16:33,109
thought process you have to be thinking

3321
02:16:36,549 --> 02:16:35,059
so yeah I think the vast majority of

3322
02:16:38,589 --> 02:16:36,559
them can be explained I think Kevin had

3323
02:16:40,629 --> 02:16:38,599
all have done that and did it quite some

3324
02:16:43,000 --> 02:16:40,639
time ago and pointed out the problems of

3325
02:16:45,700 --> 02:16:43,010
hypnosis and everything else but you

3326
02:16:47,979 --> 02:16:45,710
know is there still a core enigma there

3327
02:16:49,660 --> 02:16:47,989
may be but it's not gonna be anybody

3328
02:16:52,120 --> 02:16:49,670
around right now that triggers out what

3329
02:16:53,649 --> 02:16:52,130
that is before Greg and Chris comment

3330
02:16:56,290 --> 02:16:53,659
let me ask you one quick question Paul

3331
02:16:58,389 --> 02:16:56,300
Campbell and that is the people who have

3332
02:17:01,389 --> 02:16:58,399
been so troubled so traumatized by

3333
02:17:03,759 --> 02:17:01,399
abductions we assume then that they

3334
02:17:04,490 --> 02:17:03,769
should be treated by proper mental

3335
02:17:06,620 --> 02:17:04,500
health profession

3336
02:17:09,560 --> 02:17:06,630
to see what the process is and what's

3337
02:17:12,500 --> 02:17:09,570
going on yes absolutely the problem is

3338
02:17:15,470 --> 02:17:12,510
that they will get answers that they

3339
02:17:17,959 --> 02:17:15,480
don't like and you see that sometimes

3340
02:17:19,339 --> 02:17:17,969
within UFO research they'll say oh these

3341
02:17:22,459 --> 02:17:19,349
people are telling them that you know I

3342
02:17:25,220 --> 02:17:22,469
paraphrase there's just crazy well maybe

3343
02:17:27,500 --> 02:17:25,230
some of them are crazy as that term is

3344
02:17:29,720 --> 02:17:27,510
commonly understood and you're not using

3345
02:17:32,150 --> 02:17:29,730
that term maybe a lot of them really do

3346
02:17:33,500 --> 02:17:32,160
have some psychological problems that

3347
02:17:35,839 --> 02:17:33,510
are better addressed by trained

3348
02:17:37,520 --> 02:17:35,849
professionals who might not give you the

3349
02:17:39,589 --> 02:17:37,530
answers you want that you're being

3350
02:17:41,480 --> 02:17:39,599
abducted by aliens or whatever and Kevin

3351
02:17:44,150 --> 02:17:41,490
it and if those guys addressed that in

3352
02:17:46,400 --> 02:17:44,160
their book why people gravitate towards

3353
02:17:48,320 --> 02:17:46,410
this alien abduction answer and what

3354
02:17:50,419 --> 02:17:48,330
that says about them and what that says

3355
02:17:52,759 --> 02:17:50,429
about the researchers too it's it's a

3356
02:17:55,009 --> 02:17:52,769
fascinating book you interviewed Kevin

3357
02:17:56,750 --> 02:17:55,019
for film years ago and he gave me a copy

3358
02:17:58,520 --> 02:17:56,760
at the end of the interview and I would

3359
02:18:00,589 --> 02:17:58,530
put that book on my list of five books

3360
02:18:01,669 --> 02:18:00,599
that are must read books dealing with

3361
02:18:03,379 --> 02:18:01,679
the UFO phenomena

3362
02:18:05,600 --> 02:18:03,389
Greg's project beta being another one

3363
02:18:07,220 --> 02:18:05,610
okay Greg why'd you drop in you've been

3364
02:18:09,230 --> 02:18:07,230
referred to you've been mentioned what's

3365
02:18:11,000 --> 02:18:09,240
your reaction about the abduction

3366
02:18:12,919 --> 02:18:11,010
abduction thing and what it might be in

3367
02:18:17,540 --> 02:18:12,929
the state of it and all that let's go

3368
02:18:19,310 --> 02:18:17,550
for all of that yeah well as far as Paul

3369
02:18:21,500 --> 02:18:19,320
was concerned everything that he said I

3370
02:18:24,950 --> 02:18:21,510
pretty much the same thing I wanted to

3371
02:18:28,310 --> 02:18:24,960
say however he seems to place less faith

3372
02:18:30,740 --> 02:18:28,320
in the in the act of the quote unquote

3373
02:18:32,870 --> 02:18:30,750
reality of an abduction than I do I

3374
02:18:34,640 --> 02:18:32,880
think there have is something going on I

3375
02:18:36,799 --> 02:18:34,650
think there has been something going on

3376
02:18:39,709 --> 02:18:36,809
it involves something that's non-human

3377
02:18:41,089 --> 02:18:39,719
in a few cases interacting with us and

3378
02:18:43,669 --> 02:18:41,099
it's been going on for thousands of

3379
02:18:45,680 --> 02:18:43,679
years now that the the character that

3380
02:18:47,120 --> 02:18:45,690
takes of course and most people

3381
02:18:50,419 --> 02:18:47,130
listening will agree with this is based

3382
02:18:52,759 --> 02:18:50,429
on the culture of the time and the

3383
02:18:54,770 --> 02:18:52,769
individual that experiences it the

3384
02:18:57,259 --> 02:18:54,780
problem now I think in the for the since

3385
02:18:59,589 --> 02:18:57,269
Betty and Barney Hill up to now has been

3386
02:19:02,270 --> 02:18:59,599
that there is a reigning idea

3387
02:19:05,780 --> 02:19:02,280
consciously and subconsciously and maybe

3388
02:19:07,520 --> 02:19:05,790
even collectively unconsciously about

3389
02:19:10,970 --> 02:19:07,530
what we are seeing and what it is

3390
02:19:14,030 --> 02:19:10,980
quote-unquote and I think probably the

3391
02:19:15,919 --> 02:19:14,040
only way to fix that or change it or

3392
02:19:18,000 --> 02:19:15,929
have it to move forward and I've been

3393
02:19:20,549 --> 02:19:18,010
asked this before is to

3394
02:19:24,059 --> 02:19:20,559
drop abduction research probably for

3395
02:19:25,349 --> 02:19:24,069
five years or so it's emanate it is what

3396
02:19:27,450 --> 02:19:25,359
you're saying yes it's highly

3397
02:19:30,200 --> 02:19:27,460
contaminated started again with new

3398
02:19:33,209 --> 02:19:30,210
people and absolutely refused to use

3399
02:19:37,790 --> 02:19:33,219
have not agreed Russian and see what

3400
02:19:40,799 --> 02:19:37,800
happens I would wager that the abduction

3401
02:19:43,410 --> 02:19:40,809
enigma the whatever that whatever is

3402
02:19:45,540 --> 02:19:43,420
happening to people would one change and

3403
02:19:46,259 --> 02:19:45,550
to become a lot more diverse than it is

3404
02:19:47,700 --> 02:19:46,269
right now

3405
02:19:49,469 --> 02:19:47,710
and there'd be a lot of people would

3406
02:19:52,769 --> 02:19:49,479
drop off the map saying oh I guess it's

3407
02:19:54,660 --> 02:19:52,779
not aliens anymore to I as I've said

3408
02:19:56,700 --> 02:19:54,670
before I think when there is this

3409
02:20:00,030 --> 02:19:56,710
interaction between us and whatever this

3410
02:20:02,250 --> 02:20:00,040
non-human thing is we at our peril

3411
02:20:06,510 --> 02:20:02,260
discount our contribution to that

3412
02:20:10,320 --> 02:20:06,520
interaction meaning our our perception

3413
02:20:13,380 --> 02:20:10,330
is is is hampered by by our culture by

3414
02:20:15,000 --> 02:20:13,390
our subconscious by and probably a

3415
02:20:17,460 --> 02:20:15,010
hundred other factors or not aware of

3416
02:20:20,910 --> 02:20:17,470
right now but we contribute to that

3417
02:20:23,120 --> 02:20:20,920
interaction with our perception to

3418
02:20:26,340 --> 02:20:23,130
whatever that on top of whatever that

3419
02:20:28,920 --> 02:20:26,350
experience is and and there and I

3420
02:20:30,960 --> 02:20:28,930
believe in in a certain few cases maybe

3421
02:20:32,940 --> 02:20:30,970
more than a few there is an interaction

3422
02:20:35,280 --> 02:20:32,950
with something that is that is outside

3423
02:20:36,780 --> 02:20:35,290
the consciousness of the abductee or

3424
02:20:39,090 --> 02:20:36,790
experience here whatever you want to

3425
02:20:42,090 --> 02:20:39,100
call them Chris I couldn't agree more

3426
02:20:44,219 --> 02:20:42,100
Greg I I don't think you can throw the

3427
02:20:47,670 --> 02:20:44,229
Proby proverbial baby out with the

3428
02:20:50,760 --> 02:20:47,680
bathwater at the core I do a sense that

3429
02:20:54,570 --> 02:20:50,770
there are true cases that tie in with

3430
02:20:56,160 --> 02:20:54,580
ancient interpretations a medieval

3431
02:20:59,940 --> 02:20:56,170
interpretations whether it's Incubus and

3432
02:21:01,889 --> 02:20:59,950
succubus or or I think some of the

3433
02:21:03,269 --> 02:21:01,899
Middle Eastern countries have some

3434
02:21:06,030 --> 02:21:03,279
pretty interesting traditions relating

3435
02:21:08,219 --> 02:21:06,040
to this it goes back centuries but I

3436
02:21:09,780 --> 02:21:08,229
think with the introduction of the alien

3437
02:21:12,690 --> 02:21:09,790
meme into this I think it's totally

3438
02:21:16,469 --> 02:21:12,700
muddy the waters I think we're we do

3439
02:21:20,490 --> 02:21:16,479
have needy people who are crying out for

3440
02:21:22,500 --> 02:21:20,500
help and that cannot be you know stated

3441
02:21:24,740 --> 02:21:22,510
and understated I I do feel that there

3442
02:21:27,240 --> 02:21:24,750
are people that need help whether it's

3443
02:21:30,750 --> 02:21:27,250
trying to figure out which abduction

3444
02:21:33,300 --> 02:21:30,760
researcher is most in line with whatever

3445
02:21:36,029 --> 02:21:33,310
you're dealing with and then going to

3446
02:21:38,489 --> 02:21:36,039
that person to get validation is an

3447
02:21:41,189 --> 02:21:38,499
answer I don't believe it is and you

3448
02:21:43,979 --> 02:21:41,199
know I do really think that it's it's a

3449
02:21:47,250 --> 02:21:43,989
real it's a whirlpool that you get

3450
02:21:48,989 --> 02:21:47,260
caught into I think and and you know

3451
02:21:52,109 --> 02:21:48,999
people need to be helped and I think the

3452
02:21:54,689 --> 02:21:52,119
mental health profession should step up

3453
02:21:57,559 --> 02:21:54,699
to the plate and provide recourse for

3454
02:22:00,809 --> 02:21:57,569
people you know Paul's observation that

3455
02:22:02,099 --> 02:22:00,819
oftentimes people aren't too pleased to

3456
02:22:05,010 --> 02:22:02,109
hear something that they don't want to

3457
02:22:06,510 --> 02:22:05,020
hear we have to somehow get around and I

3458
02:22:10,290 --> 02:22:06,520
think these there are people that need

3459
02:22:12,809 --> 02:22:10,300
help and I don't see abduction research

3460
02:22:14,849 --> 02:22:12,819
in its present form as supplying the

3461
02:22:16,979 --> 02:22:14,859
necessary help that these people are

3462
02:22:19,769 --> 02:22:16,989
crying out for this is the fifth

3463
02:22:21,750 --> 02:22:19,779
anniversary edition of the power cast we

3464
02:22:24,179 --> 02:22:21,760
have Paul Kimball we have Greg Bishop

3465
02:22:26,849 --> 02:22:24,189
our co-host is Chris O'Brien were back

3466
02:22:35,570 --> 02:22:26,859
for one more I'm gene Steinberg you're

3467
02:22:41,270 --> 02:22:38,950
[Music]

3468
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graphic converter is the image

3469
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manipulation tool for the rest of us it

3470
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does not use any database you get full

3471
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control of all your files want to view

3472
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the images of a folder drag it into

3473
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graphic converter and a powerful browser

3474
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opens up to show your image files you

3475
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could use it for slideshows you could

3476
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use it to import images from digital

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cameras or from scanners need to do some

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image editing you can do that too in

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graphic converter also print catalogs

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convert from so many formats

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like one and a half million of your

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when you buy graphic converter use the

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for graphic converter go to Lemke soft

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3490
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3491
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3497
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3500
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3502
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3508
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3509
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3510
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3512
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3513
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3514
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3515
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3517
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3518
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3519
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[Music]

3520
02:24:44,940 --> 02:24:43,001
if you owe money to the IRS you can't

3521
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make the problem go away by yourself but

3522
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with the help of Dan pillow you can get

3523
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3524
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hi I'm Dan pillow for 30 years I've

3525
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helped thousands of people solve their

3526
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tax debt problem and I can help you

3527
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solve yours too we take a very simple

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but proven three-step approach to

3529
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3530
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3533
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comprehensive plan to get your tax debt

3534
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3535
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sometimes even completely eliminated and

3536
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3537
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3538
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3539
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3540
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3541
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3542
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3543
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been protecting taxpayers from the IRS

3544
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for three decades and he can help you

3545
02:25:36,900 --> 02:25:34,360
too call us today at 834 six six eight

3546
02:25:40,051 --> 02:25:36,910
twenty nine that's eight hundred thirty

3547
02:25:42,060 --> 02:25:40,061
four no tax normal blood pressure

3548
02:25:45,421 --> 02:25:42,070
naturally how would that make you feel

3549
02:25:47,280 --> 02:25:45,431
I'm from New Mexico January of 2000 I

3550
02:25:49,711 --> 02:25:47,290
had a heart attack then my real health

3551
02:25:51,810 --> 02:25:49,721
began going downhill and I had high

3552
02:25:53,761 --> 02:25:51,820
blood pressure high blood sugar and poor

3553
02:25:56,220 --> 02:25:53,771
vision and I really wasn't sleeping well

3554
02:25:57,570 --> 02:25:56,230
I was a mess pretty much Don reports

3555
02:25:59,730 --> 02:25:57,580
dramatic improvements with heart and

3556
02:26:01,560 --> 02:25:59,740
body extract I started taking a heart

3557
02:26:03,480 --> 02:26:01,570
and body extract and from within a few

3558
02:26:06,001 --> 02:26:03,490
days I started sleeping a lot better

3559
02:26:08,341 --> 02:26:06,011
my blood pressure normalized my blood

3560
02:26:10,171 --> 02:26:08,351
sugar normalized and my sleep really did

3561
02:26:11,610 --> 02:26:10,181
improve experience these benefits and

3562
02:26:13,081 --> 02:26:11,620
more when your body gets what it needs

3563
02:26:16,411 --> 02:26:13,091
with the assistance of heart and body

3564
02:26:19,680 --> 02:26:16,421
extract order at HB extract calm or call

3565
02:26:22,350 --> 02:26:19,690
eight six six two nine five 5305 that's

3566
02:26:28,650 --> 02:26:22,360
HB extract calm or call eight six six

3567
02:26:31,770 --> 02:26:28,660
two nine five 5305 I saw dramatic

3568
02:26:34,350 --> 02:26:31,780
improvements from taking body details at

3569
02:26:37,560 --> 02:26:34,360
HB extract calm or call eight six six

3570
02:26:41,190 --> 02:26:37,570
two nine five 5305 for heart and body

3571
02:26:42,690 --> 02:26:41,200
extract are you tired of searching for

3572
02:26:45,010 --> 02:26:42,700
great talk radio

3573
02:26:50,849 --> 02:26:45,020
are you more important search

3574
02:26:54,370 --> 02:26:50,859
we are the GCM radio network

3575
02:27:04,630 --> 02:26:54,380
hi this is ted phillips listening to the

3576
02:27:06,580 --> 02:27:04,640
fair cast and hey if you have a question

3577
02:27:10,120 --> 02:27:06,590
or comment to make about the power cast

3578
02:27:12,639 --> 02:27:10,130
write us news at the power cast com once

3579
02:27:15,670 --> 02:27:12,649
again that's news at the power cast calm

3580
02:27:18,189 --> 02:27:15,680
yes neighbors we read every message we

3581
02:27:19,809 --> 02:27:18,199
get ok it's come to this the fifth

3582
02:27:22,120 --> 02:27:19,819
anniversary episode of the power cast

3583
02:27:24,490 --> 02:27:22,130
Paul Kimball Greg Bishop the co-host is

3584
02:27:27,309 --> 02:27:24,500
Chris O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg we

3585
02:27:29,319 --> 02:27:27,319
started in the last portion to cover

3586
02:27:31,870 --> 02:27:29,329
abductions and I think we all kind of

3587
02:27:34,450 --> 02:27:31,880
agree that maybe it's getting too much

3588
02:27:37,210 --> 02:27:34,460
emphasis and we have to move on it may

3589
02:27:39,219 --> 02:27:37,220
be that abductions are nothing more than

3590
02:27:41,229 --> 02:27:39,229
some kind of mental process we need to

3591
02:27:44,290 --> 02:27:41,239
understand better maybe its sleep

3592
02:27:46,719 --> 02:27:44,300
paralysis I don't know I think though in

3593
02:27:48,700 --> 02:27:46,729
my own opinion if a person thinks

3594
02:27:50,469 --> 02:27:48,710
they've been abducted they should go to

3595
02:27:51,849 --> 02:27:50,479
a mental health professional see what's

3596
02:27:54,189 --> 02:27:51,859
going on see if they can figure out

3597
02:27:56,529 --> 02:27:54,199
what's happening what has happened what

3598
02:27:58,450 --> 02:27:56,539
is happening David Halpern who was on

3599
02:28:00,939 --> 02:27:58,460
the power cast a couple of weeks ago

3600
02:28:03,279 --> 02:28:00,949
thought that maybe repressed memories of

3601
02:28:04,630 --> 02:28:03,289
sexual abuse may have been partly

3602
02:28:07,149 --> 02:28:04,640
responsible for at least some of the

3603
02:28:09,580 --> 02:28:07,159
cases I don't know I would however just

3604
02:28:11,229 --> 02:28:09,590
to mention briefly before we move on

3605
02:28:12,939 --> 02:28:11,239
with regard to a certain case it's

3606
02:28:15,760 --> 02:28:12,949
getting a lot of publicity when your

3607
02:28:19,630 --> 02:28:15,770
therapist says I can't help you let's

3608
02:28:21,309 --> 02:28:19,640
contact a civilian non therapist UFO

3609
02:28:23,740 --> 02:28:21,319
investigator to figure out what your

3610
02:28:26,319 --> 02:28:23,750
abduction is go find another therapist

3611
02:28:29,529 --> 02:28:26,329
that's what I have to say let's move on

3612
02:28:31,660 --> 02:28:29,539
one of the goals I guess with the

3613
02:28:34,120 --> 02:28:31,670
paranormal research with UFOs is some

3614
02:28:37,679 --> 02:28:34,130
kind of resolution we want answers Paul

3615
02:28:40,510 --> 02:28:37,689
Kimball can we ever find answers no and

3616
02:28:42,399 --> 02:28:40,520
yes depends on what kind of answers

3617
02:28:45,729 --> 02:28:42,409
you're looking for are you looking for

3618
02:28:48,099 --> 02:28:45,739
answers like you know what are UFOs or

3619
02:28:50,710 --> 02:28:48,109
what are ghosts or whatever you know

3620
02:28:52,210 --> 02:28:50,720
whatever know some broad unified field

3621
02:28:54,609 --> 02:28:52,220
theory some particular answer you can

3622
02:28:56,260 --> 02:28:54,619
explain certain cases that's what you

3623
02:28:57,700 --> 02:28:56,270
take the UFO phenomenon you should be

3624
02:29:00,070 --> 02:28:57,710
trying to say okay

3625
02:29:02,469 --> 02:29:00,080
that was this it's now an IFO that was

3626
02:29:04,439 --> 02:29:02,479
this I think the answers that everybody

3627
02:29:06,550 --> 02:29:04,449
should be seeking and I've said this

3628
02:29:09,040 --> 02:29:06,560
more and more frequently over the last

3629
02:29:11,620 --> 02:29:09,050
year or two are more personal answers

3630
02:29:14,139 --> 02:29:11,630
that you know treated as a mystery

3631
02:29:17,050 --> 02:29:14,149
treated as something that's fun frankly

3632
02:29:20,110 --> 02:29:17,060
and that might teach you something about

3633
02:29:22,150 --> 02:29:20,120
yourself and the world around you and if

3634
02:29:24,790 --> 02:29:22,160
you follow that path you might actually

3635
02:29:26,229 --> 02:29:24,800
wind up learning more than if you're you

3636
02:29:27,610 --> 02:29:26,239
know you're part of some concerted

3637
02:29:30,429 --> 02:29:27,620
effort to discover the secret of the

3638
02:29:32,590 --> 02:29:30,439
cosmic Watergate or whatever and also

3639
02:29:34,420 --> 02:29:32,600
don't honestly don't take it so

3640
02:29:36,820 --> 02:29:34,430
signaling Bill Shatner on Saturday Night

3641
02:29:38,139 --> 02:29:36,830
Live don't take it so seriously get out

3642
02:29:40,660 --> 02:29:38,149
of your basements your mother's basement

3643
02:29:41,889 --> 02:29:40,670
or whatever live your lives realize that

3644
02:29:43,990 --> 02:29:41,899
there's a lot of fun things going on in

3645
02:29:45,820 --> 02:29:44,000
the world UFOs are just part of it it's

3646
02:29:47,740 --> 02:29:45,830
not the be-all and end-all of existence

3647
02:29:50,410 --> 02:29:47,750
until the aliens come down and plant

3648
02:29:53,080 --> 02:29:50,420
their flag on our planet who knows so

3649
02:29:55,929 --> 02:29:53,090
let's treat it as a mystery and let's

3650
02:29:58,900 --> 02:29:55,939
try and you know get that gee whiz this

3651
02:30:00,340 --> 02:29:58,910
is cool factor back into it again and I

3652
02:30:01,740 --> 02:30:00,350
think that would be the answer that I

3653
02:30:04,090 --> 02:30:01,750
think we should all be looking for is

3654
02:30:06,099 --> 02:30:04,100
the answer is let's make it fun and

3655
02:30:09,250 --> 02:30:06,109
realize the journey is as important as

3656
02:30:12,400 --> 02:30:09,260
getting to the destination Greg I think

3657
02:30:14,349 --> 02:30:12,410
that there will be an answer smoke so

3658
02:30:16,780 --> 02:30:14,359
called but it's just gonna be a step

3659
02:30:18,070 --> 02:30:16,790
because whatever it is and this is sort

3660
02:30:20,010 --> 02:30:18,080
of in deference to Chris and it's

3661
02:30:21,729 --> 02:30:20,020
trickster theory or whatever it is is

3662
02:30:25,719 --> 02:30:21,739
quote-unquote if you're talking about

3663
02:30:27,700 --> 02:30:25,729
UFOs specifically and maybe something

3664
02:30:31,269 --> 02:30:27,710
extra human that we have contact with

3665
02:30:33,820 --> 02:30:31,279
which are may in some ways be completely

3666
02:30:35,950 --> 02:30:33,830
separate from the UFO question whatever

3667
02:30:38,019 --> 02:30:35,960
that is as soon as we figure out what we

3668
02:30:40,389 --> 02:30:38,029
think it is it's going to it's not going

3669
02:30:42,250 --> 02:30:40,399
to be the whole of the street and it's

3670
02:30:45,969 --> 02:30:42,260
going to continue because I think that

3671
02:30:48,309 --> 02:30:45,979
mystery is self built self design or

3672
02:30:51,250 --> 02:30:48,319
whatever whatever it may be it's even us

3673
02:30:54,099 --> 02:30:51,260
to lead us on to something else and not

3674
02:30:56,920 --> 02:30:54,109
not ever have the exact answer and take

3675
02:30:59,920 --> 02:30:56,930
us on a journey as Paul is saying of

3676
02:31:01,420 --> 02:30:59,930
self-discovery and and the other part of

3677
02:31:02,920 --> 02:31:01,430
that is I think if there is some

3678
02:31:04,809 --> 02:31:02,930
breakthrough and like I said before at

3679
02:31:06,269 --> 02:31:04,819
the beginning of the show there is some

3680
02:31:09,460 --> 02:31:06,279
breakthrough it's not going to come from

3681
02:31:10,990 --> 02:31:09,470
Stan Friedman or Kevin Randall or our

3682
02:31:12,850 --> 02:31:11,000
Richard Dolan or about

3683
02:31:13,900 --> 02:31:12,860
gender any of these people though the

3684
02:31:15,940 --> 02:31:13,910
breakthroughs going to come from

3685
02:31:18,430 --> 02:31:15,950
somebody completely outside the UFO

3686
02:31:20,260 --> 02:31:18,440
community who decides that this is a

3687
02:31:22,090 --> 02:31:20,270
serious subject worth looking at and

3688
02:31:24,700 --> 02:31:22,100
worth spending some time on and worth

3689
02:31:26,890 --> 02:31:24,710
looking at the data maybe in a different

3690
02:31:29,290 --> 02:31:26,900
way though that if there's going to be

3691
02:31:30,700 --> 02:31:29,300
any kind of an answer or a step I think

3692
02:31:32,140 --> 02:31:30,710
it's gonna be more like a step it's

3693
02:31:33,610 --> 02:31:32,150
gonna come from outside the UFO

3694
02:31:36,190 --> 02:31:33,620
community and I think the UFO community

3695
02:31:38,980 --> 02:31:36,200
should embrace that instead of saying if

3696
02:31:40,270 --> 02:31:38,990
a ufologist whatever that is discovered

3697
02:31:42,400 --> 02:31:40,280
it that that's the only way that makes

3698
02:31:44,800 --> 02:31:42,410
it important because nobody's stepping

3699
02:31:47,770 --> 02:31:44,810
on your turf what we're trying to do if

3700
02:31:49,660 --> 02:31:47,780
they do that is to make it to give us

3701
02:31:52,450 --> 02:31:49,670
more answers more accessibility to the

3702
02:31:54,850 --> 02:31:52,460
subject to the mystery and to have more

3703
02:31:56,980 --> 02:31:54,860
people understand it because you know

3704
02:31:58,930 --> 02:31:56,990
getting information out there to the

3705
02:32:01,290 --> 02:31:58,940
most people with the within the most

3706
02:32:04,720 --> 02:32:01,300
comprehensive and and and comprehend

3707
02:32:06,040 --> 02:32:04,730
comprehending understandable way is

3708
02:32:07,660 --> 02:32:06,050
probably the most important thing that

3709
02:32:09,670 --> 02:32:07,670
can be done about about any of these

3710
02:32:11,770 --> 02:32:09,680
mysteries and particularly the UFO one

3711
02:32:12,790 --> 02:32:11,780
let me just add really quickly because I

3712
02:32:15,550 --> 02:32:12,800
know you're running at a time but

3713
02:32:18,880 --> 02:32:15,560
building on what Greg said if it was

3714
02:32:20,380 --> 02:32:18,890
discovered tomorrow that some UFOs were

3715
02:32:23,380 --> 02:32:20,390
like if they landed on the White House

3716
02:32:26,710 --> 02:32:23,390
lawn aliens from outer space I guarantee

3717
02:32:28,000 --> 02:32:26,720
you that no current UFO researcher would

3718
02:32:32,050 --> 02:32:28,010
ever be heard of again

3719
02:32:33,460 --> 02:32:32,060
oh yeah other than as a citizen of the

3720
02:32:35,440 --> 02:32:33,470
United States or Canada or this world

3721
02:32:36,910 --> 02:32:35,450
that would have an equal say with all

3722
02:32:40,420 --> 02:32:36,920
the other citizens about what we should

3723
02:32:42,910 --> 02:32:40,430
do about it but if that answer ever does

3724
02:32:44,860 --> 02:32:42,920
arrive every UFO researcher currently

3725
02:32:47,740 --> 02:32:44,870
working now is irrelevant because it

3726
02:32:49,570 --> 02:32:47,750
will be smarter people in other areas

3727
02:32:51,760 --> 02:32:49,580
that will be tasked to deal with that

3728
02:32:53,500 --> 02:32:51,770
that issue from there on in Chris O

3729
02:32:56,440 --> 02:32:53,510
Brien what's your comment about what

3730
02:32:58,900 --> 02:32:56,450
Greg and Paul said so far well I agree

3731
02:33:01,000 --> 02:32:58,910
III think that a really important

3732
02:33:02,470 --> 02:33:01,010
element to this it's it's it's finding

3733
02:33:04,990 --> 02:33:02,480
out about your place in the university

3734
02:33:06,880 --> 02:33:05,000
and your your process I think that it's

3735
02:33:09,160 --> 02:33:06,890
it's very personal and very individual

3736
02:33:10,840 --> 02:33:09,170
but at the same time one thing that Greg

3737
02:33:14,500 --> 02:33:10,850
just hinted at is I think there's a

3738
02:33:16,060 --> 02:33:14,510
collective agenda as well and my friend

3739
02:33:18,610 --> 02:33:16,070
David Perkins has come up with an idea

3740
02:33:20,800 --> 02:33:18,620
called the evolutionary imperative that

3741
02:33:24,170 --> 02:33:20,810
perhaps we are collectively manifesting

3742
02:33:26,750 --> 02:33:24,180
phenomena that are designed by us in

3743
02:33:28,790 --> 02:33:26,760
Collective to draw off planet before our

3744
02:33:32,389 --> 02:33:28,800
Sun goes supernova we get hit by an

3745
02:33:34,880 --> 02:33:32,399
asteroid or somehow destroy our world we

3746
02:33:37,910 --> 02:33:34,890
need to get humanity out into the Stars

3747
02:33:40,250 --> 02:33:37,920
and and start populating the the cosmos

3748
02:33:42,889 --> 02:33:40,260
is similar to a breath of wind it blows

3749
02:33:45,729 --> 02:33:42,899
little dandelion seeds across your lawn

3750
02:33:48,889 --> 02:33:45,739
so I think this is another potential

3751
02:33:50,870 --> 02:33:48,899
answer but will we ever know what the

3752
02:33:51,800 --> 02:33:50,880
true answer is I tend to agree with Paul

3753
02:33:53,240 --> 02:33:51,810
I don't think so

3754
02:33:56,000 --> 02:33:53,250
I think that there's a self

3755
02:33:58,550 --> 02:33:56,010
nullification aspect to this that will

3756
02:34:00,710 --> 02:33:58,560
as Gregg pointed out will always keep us

3757
02:34:02,900 --> 02:34:00,720
guessing soon as you discover a pattern

3758
02:34:04,400 --> 02:34:02,910
you'll get the data to support it you

3759
02:34:06,550 --> 02:34:04,410
think you've solved something you think

3760
02:34:10,250 --> 02:34:06,560
you've made a step forward and boom I

3761
02:34:14,059 --> 02:34:10,260
guarantee you the data will give you 180

3762
02:34:15,800 --> 02:34:14,069
degree opposite patterns to nullify what

3763
02:34:19,160 --> 02:34:15,810
you think you've discovered so there is

3764
02:34:20,809 --> 02:34:19,170
a built-in self nullification aspect to

3765
02:34:22,939 --> 02:34:20,819
this whole thing or the three men in

3766
02:34:25,700 --> 02:34:22,949
black will come to your door and say hey

3767
02:34:27,830 --> 02:34:25,710
you found out the secret Albert K bender

3768
02:34:30,800 --> 02:34:27,840
you have to shut up about it but maybe

3769
02:34:32,809 --> 02:34:30,810
that didn't happen at all Paul Kimbo we

3770
02:34:34,910 --> 02:34:32,819
have a couple of minutes left take a few

3771
02:34:36,710 --> 02:34:34,920
moments to tell about the stuff that

3772
02:34:38,150 --> 02:34:36,720
you're working on once again and where

3773
02:34:40,880 --> 02:34:38,160
they can find more of the things you do

3774
02:34:48,830 --> 02:34:40,890
sure you can go to my company's new

3775
02:34:51,439 --> 02:34:48,840
website wwl-tv comm and actually a

3776
02:34:54,170 --> 02:34:51,449
sequel to best evidence not through the

3777
02:34:56,360 --> 02:34:54,180
traditional Network method but this time

3778
02:34:58,160 --> 02:34:56,370
using things like IndieGoGo Kickstarter

3779
02:35:00,380 --> 02:34:58,170
and trying to connect with that younger

3780
02:35:02,179 --> 02:35:00,390
generation and raise money that way to

3781
02:35:03,889 --> 02:35:02,189
do a film I always wanted to do a sequel

3782
02:35:07,910 --> 02:35:03,899
that was going to be called the UFO

3783
02:35:09,559 --> 02:35:07,920
phenomenon beyond best evidence so you

3784
02:35:11,330 --> 02:35:09,569
have all your cases you can show that

3785
02:35:13,639 --> 02:35:11,340
there's an objective reality something

3786
02:35:16,070 --> 02:35:13,649
is happening you know okay let's ask the

3787
02:35:18,530 --> 02:35:16,080
big questions what does it all mean what

3788
02:35:19,820 --> 02:35:18,540
are you know not the answers but from

3789
02:35:22,130 --> 02:35:19,830
that point on what are the questions

3790
02:35:24,620 --> 02:35:22,140
that we should be asking and so yeah

3791
02:35:27,260 --> 02:35:24,630
that's the film the one paranormal shall

3792
02:35:28,610 --> 02:35:27,270
we say related film that I hope to get

3793
02:35:31,280 --> 02:35:28,620
off the ground over the next few months

3794
02:35:34,519 --> 02:35:31,290
and start making Greg Bishop well I'm

3795
02:35:37,189 --> 02:35:34,529
I've got time now to do different things

3796
02:35:37,760 --> 02:35:37,199
so I want what I'm going to be doing is

3797
02:35:41,240 --> 02:35:37,770
resurrect

3798
02:35:43,420 --> 02:35:41,250
in the radio mysterioso site so the

3799
02:35:47,990 --> 02:35:43,430
people can once again download the shows

3800
02:35:50,029 --> 02:35:48,000
including the the very loud and

3801
02:35:52,010 --> 02:35:50,039
contentious not with each other show

3802
02:35:53,840 --> 02:35:52,020
that Paulette I said last week and

3803
02:35:57,410 --> 02:35:53,850
probably contribute a little bit more to

3804
02:35:58,849 --> 02:35:57,420
euphemistic and and some projects here

3805
02:36:01,069 --> 02:35:58,859
writing projects that I'm working on

3806
02:36:02,899 --> 02:36:01,079
that continues some stuff I was doing

3807
02:36:04,849 --> 02:36:02,909
with Mac Tony's actually so we'll see

3808
02:36:06,889 --> 02:36:04,859
what happens in the next few months and

3809
02:36:08,960 --> 02:36:06,899
a year or so with that Chris O'Brien

3810
02:36:11,029 --> 02:36:08,970
tell us about the stuff you're involved

3811
02:36:13,309 --> 02:36:11,039
with well I have my sov camera project

3812
02:36:16,029 --> 02:36:13,319
which is desperately hoping for warmer

3813
02:36:20,179 --> 02:36:16,039
weather 30 blow is not very kind to

3814
02:36:23,120 --> 02:36:20,189
electronics and of course the the forum

3815
02:36:25,279 --> 02:36:23,130
para cast calm I'm a moderator on their

3816
02:36:28,069 --> 02:36:25,289
podcast forums and I do have a website

3817
02:36:30,200 --> 02:36:28,079
our strange planet calm this has been

3818
02:36:32,389 --> 02:36:30,210
just a fascinating five years an

3819
02:36:34,099 --> 02:36:32,399
incredible adventure of discovery and we

3820
02:36:36,590 --> 02:36:34,109
hope for five more years of the para

3821
02:36:39,050 --> 02:36:36,600
cast where we'll be hearing from all

3822
02:36:42,139 --> 02:36:39,060
these guys and a lot more Paul Campbell

3823
02:36:44,330 --> 02:36:42,149
Greg Bishop Chris O'Brien our co-host

3824
02:36:46,370 --> 02:36:44,340
thanks for joining us this week on the

3825
02:36:48,920 --> 02:36:46,380
power cast cool good talk with you guys

3826
02:36:52,040 --> 02:36:48,930
good job guys yeah thanks for having me

3827
02:36:53,240 --> 02:36:52,050
yeah thanks here - I've always want

3828
02:36:55,010 --> 02:36:53,250
people to hear something different I

3829
02:36:56,809 --> 02:36:55,020
have to say instead of complaining it

3830
02:37:02,120 --> 02:36:56,819
but the last thing I said and this this

3831
02:37:07,470 --> 02:37:05,100
there is calculated presentation of

3832
02:37:09,950 --> 02:37:07,480
making the impossible incorporated tune